750 Brettonians v DoC

Space Monkey was on vacation so we decided to sneak in a small game last Wednesday. He came over with his DoC and, having played WoC, Goblins, and Dwarfs recently, I decided to try out the Bretonnians. At 750 there is not much to do.

Men At Arms being slow, bad WS and low S are a bad choice against DoC. I would be hitting on 5, needing at least a 4 to wound...they are out. I love knights. lets mount everything.

I put in a Paladin on a Pegasus with the Ogre Blade (S6 would give me a chance if he brought the D-Prince in addition to the accursed Skillcannon of doooooom), my required BSB on regular warhorse,  pulled 6 Knigthts Errant, 9 Knights of the realm, both with full command, and 4 Grail knights. I did not have a model to use for the Skill-a-pult, which is about the only powerful thing in the Bret book but with an army of 2+ save, I should be okay,.

We seldom play scenarios, which is a mistake I think. Battle Line is okay, but it is all we do...I forgot about rolling scenario and elected to get the blessing for the ward.

I set up pretty basically. I wanted my 4 Grai Knights as far from the Skillcannon as possible so they were always going to be my last placement. Worked perfectly, with his cannon on my left, my Grail Knights on the right. My Grail Knights and Knights Errant faced his Skullcrushers, the Knights of the Realm his 'Nettes and Cannon.


DOC Turn 1
He made a limited advance witht he Nettes and Cannon, leaving the Crushers on their back line. My nnot putting in peasants or men at arms looks even better. If he was a full on aggressive player, they MIGHT make sense as a hopefully stubborn tar pit, but I know he is an extremely conservative player, so they would be wasted points for me.

I am able to stop his Miasma.

Bretonnian Turn 1
It is a long-shot, but I declare the charge with the Knights of the Realm. S5 would be nice and worst case I probably get in the way of the cannon. I put the Errants where he will need a 10 with his crushers, and the Grail Knights set up to flank him, as does the Peg Knight.

DOC Turn 2

His 'Nettes charge the Knights of the Realm. His Crushers remain immobile while his cannon moves slightly to get a line of sight on the Peg Knight. Stupid move and shoot cannons. Grr. Fortunately his cannon ball stops bouncing about an inch in front, doing no damage. He gets Miasma through this turn, reducing my weapon skill. It does cost me a couple hits, too.

Meanwhile, he has to take LD tests on 3d6 for each unengaged unit. Makes 3 of 5 saves with the crushers and 1 of 3 with the cannon. Yay, I have done 3 wounds to him! Okay, he did them, but...whatever, shortly you will see why I take credit for it.

In the challenge I kill his champion. He gets 3 knights, I get 2 of his guys. We precisely tie.

We have now concluded the successful portion of the battle....

Bretonnian Turn 2
He fell into my clever trap. My Grail Knights and Peg knight announce charges...against the flank of his 'Nettes. The Grail Knights smash into him. Here come 9 S6 attacks plus 3 attacks as my elite knights wipe his core off the table and I should be able to keep rolling and smash into his cannon, neutralizing it.

In the challenge his herald kills my Knight of the Realm champ but gets no overkill. He does, however, have his first missed attack of the game for any model in close combat. With his ASF he then kills 5 Knights errant. Not good. With his AP, I think I was saving on 4+. Or, more accurately, NOT saving.

My Grail Knight also fails his save.

No worries, watch my Grail Knights chew through him.

By which I mean fluff EVERY attack. No hits. between my elite Grail Knights and their horses, I combine to create a gentle breeze to cool him off, gently wafting air towards them with the palm fronds I packed instead of swords.

The Knights Errant did nothing but this time I remember I have the BSB Paladin in the unit, and he at least killed 2...but the game is over at this point. With my flank and charge it is close enough that I manage to stay in combat. uh..yay?

DOC Turn 3
His Crushers charge my Knights Errant. That will be no contest, he will wreck me even with poor rolls.The Cannonb charges the other flank.  The impact kills my last Knight of the Realm and gives the Cannon back a wound, I again do no damage, he kills my Paladin with his Herald, they run down the Grail Knights who did a combined zero wounds in two rounds of combat...

The Crushers handily defeat the Errants, who escape, I flank him with the Paladin forgetting they don't run...instability means that charge will NEVER work even if I do damage...next turn the errants re-engage and by bottom of 4 or perhaps top of 5 at most I am tabled. I think it was bottom of 4, but really...as soon as the Grail Knights fluffed I was done.

in a humorous moment, in the top of 4 he rolled Double 6 on the table and brought on 10 Bloodletters. Nice.

What Went Right
His cannon did zero shooting casualties. His magic only got through once and did 3 wounds to him. I made a couple ward saves.I got off the flank charge I had set him up for, luring him into thinking I was waiting on his crushers. And had the crushers been in range, I probably would have combo-charged them with the Knights Errant in the front and Grail Knights in the flank, but my preference all along was to hit his 'Nettes. It worked like a charm.. Be careful what you wish for, eh?

What went wrong
Grail Knights doing zero hits...never mind wounds, zero HITS. He missed I believe it was 3 close combat attacks the entire game. He dominated this one beginning to end. I knew the Brets were not exceptional, but I really thought it would be a close game he won in the bottom of 6, and not by much. Instead it was an 840-0 slaughter. Oh, and he finished with one fewer model on the table than he started with...


Good time, good lesson. To be competitive, do NOT play Brets until updated.

Warrios of Chaos v. DoC

So Space Monkey has been working on painting up some DoC for a while. He is using it as practice for when he paints his High Elves, figuring even if you mess it up a bit...it is Chaos, still will look good.

He has enough painted up for a 1250 point game so we decided to try a small one. I speed-built a list of Warriors...which means I went with the old reliables. I started with a block of Chaos Warriors with shields and full command. They fullfill multiple purposes; if we roll up Watchtower, they give me a great unit to throw in there, if we roll up Blood and Glory I have a pretty reliable standard, and they are just a great choice anyway...rugged, tough fighters in any scenario.

Next I picked a unit of Skullcrushers because...well...they are awesome. A unit of Knights, and I had just enough points left for an exalted hero with shield to be my BSB (with Rampagers standard) on a juggernaut and another on foot to be the general.

We rolled up Blood and Glory which is probably my second favorite scenario (right behind watchtower) but since he only had 2 banners and this was going to be more of a learning game, we elected to just play battleline instead. And even that we modified. We really just set up our armies without paying attention to what the other guy was doing.
 I put the big block of charriors on my right, the Skullcrushers in their left, the Knights behind the crushers.

He put his Bloodcrushers opposite my Skullcrushers, Bloodletters behind them, his Skullcannon on their right (from my perspective), his slaanesh damonettes on the far right (cleverly disguised as with elves for their better looking models) and hiding behind that 40k building in the far back left corner is a modified Ancient Treeman being converted into a D-Prince.

I won the roll to go first.

WoC Turn 1
Since I had not been able to fit in either Marauder Horsemen or the H-cannon and had no magic, I had a threat range of base to base. I advanced far enough that he had a possible but unlikely charge of about 17"...he would have needed a 10 with his Bloodcrushers. My Warriors advanced behind me and I started swinging the knights out wide to the right. (We had ruled the ruins in the center of the table buildings that could be moved around/through no problem, their only function was line of sight blocking, which was bad for me. I wanted him shooting his cannon at them, not my multiwound models).

DoC Turn 1
Space Monkey set his trap. He moved the Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers back, making it all but impossible for me to get the charge. He also flew his D-Prince out of sight but facing the middle of the table. If I advanced my Skullcrushers they would get combo charged, in the front by the Bloodcrushers and in the flank by the D-Prince.He moved the cannon forward and aimed it at my Skullcrushers...and as you can see in the picture above, I had taken my character out of the unit, so a well-placed cannonball could take out a Skullcrusher AND my BSB.

Oops.

He had no magic he wanted to try, so on to the shooting phase. His movement backwards was an excellent plan. It meant he would get at least 1 and possibly two turns of shooting at me and get the charges if he so desired. Furthermore, I believed I had nothing to deal with his cannon or D-Prince and thought the Skullcrushers v Bloodcrushers was a fair fight.

If you have read any of my past battle reports and/or ponderings, you know getting my guys into fair fights is seldom part of the plan. I like to go in with overwhelming force so even if I fluff my rolls I win and when I win, I want them to need snakeyes to avoid running. He flipped the script where I would have a whittled down unit being victimized by being on the wrong side of an unfair fight. I was already planning a most un-Warriors like strategy of running behind the nearby building to get out of sight of the cannon and save whatever was left of my unit. If he came to me we would fight but I was not going into the valley of death.

If you are a long-time reader, you also know when I have shiny new models I want to put on the table, they have a history of...well, unperforming seems to generous. Such as the Shaggoth, who got shot off the table by Dark Elves in two turns. Or Galrauch who never got a spell off and never got into combat. Or...well, he had three units I would have been excited about if I were he. The cannon was one.

Apparently being within eyesight of me is bad news for other people's models as well...because it promptly misfired and blew itself up.

Meanwhile, his weakest unit was way out on my right. He tried to cast something, his book chart forced a test and his herald took a wound, then I dispelled whatever he tried.


Not a good turn for DoC.

WoC Turn 2
His cannon blowing up changed things. Now I just had to get to where when he flank-charged my crushers I could flank charge his. I moved the Warriors into the ruins and angled them to get him when he got me, moved my knights over to face the daemonettes, and put the BSB back with the Crushers.

DoC Turn 2
Now he had to come to me. His Daemonettes charged the Knights, his Crushers charged mine. While the 'nettes made it handily, he WOULD have made it with his Crushers...if not for that retrograde move back in turn 1. He came up 2" short and had moved back 2.5".


It did shuffle him forward to where I would need an 8 to get him...

His herald and my Champion went into a challenge. He got 2 wounds through so got overkill. Then the knights did what they do, chopping down 4 or 5 of those peasants in front of them, saving everything else he hit me with. He lost another 5 or 6 to instability and after one round of combat I had 4 of 5 knights standing and he had 1 'nette and the Herald from what had been 10+ Herald. Things are looking good for the Warriors.

WoC Turn 3
I thought the smart play would be to make him come to me or combo-charge the Warriors and Crushers  but the fun play would be to declare the charge with the warriors on his Bloodletters and Crushers on his Crushers so that is what I did.

Note that both of these were much closer to "fair fights" than I like to get involved with...but I made both charges.

Except they turned out to not be all that fair. My Exalted declared a challenge, his champion Bloodletter accepted. I got overkill, rolled on the table, failed my LD test and became a Spawn...I did a couple wounds, he took more from instability and his unit shrunk precipitously.

Meanwhile, my Skullcrushers turned out to have a few advantages...such as higher strength due to ensorcelled weapons, more base attacks for the riders, frenzy which he does not get, and an extra Hero character throwing frenzied attacks...I had something like 19 extra S5 attacks wounding on 4s. He lost his last wound to instability.

But all was not well in the world of the Warriors.

Remember that herald and single 'nette? Well, his Herald got past the saves of 2 knights and the last two knights could not muster a single wound against him. They lost the combat...and ran. I can count on one hand the number of times I have ever had knights run. Wiped out? Sure. But RUN? Never.

DoC Turn 3
Well, he naturally declared the charge with his 'nettes and ran down my Knights. Whoa.

Meanwhile, the only un-engaged unit was his D-Prince, so he came to visit the Skullcrushers.

So my Exalted BSB and he went into a challenge. He hit with every attack, wounded with all, I saved most. I hit him with half, wounded once.

Against his Herald and Bloodletter, he had maybe 3 attacks, did a wound. I had about 13 attacks...and hit 1, wounded zero. But won anyway because of ranks/banner, etc. He passed LD test.

Warriors Turn 4
I am 100% engaged so no moving, shooting or magic...straight to the battle phase. He again did a wound with his Bloodletters. I again could not wound, though this time I "only" had 10 attacks to his 2...and again I won based on ranks, banner, and he passed LD.

This time I saved all the wounds his D-Prince did and he did not save mine, failed his test and died to instability.

DoC Turn 5
The winds forced my Bloodcrushers to take a LD test on 3d6 and take a wound for every point I failed by...so a Crusher died outright. I finally put a wound on his Herald and we called it a game.


What went right:
His cannon blowing up was the game, really. Had it hit the crushers and taken one or more out (67% chance) and also done in my BSB I would have had little choice but to run hide behind the building or get wiped out in just a couple turns.

My BSB out-fighting his Lord-Level D-Prince was ridiculous. By Skullcrushers performed quite well against his Bloodcrushers.

What Went Wrong
My knights being unable to compete with daemonettes? Really? Getting run down? It was hilarious but completely unexpected. And hilarious.

My Warriors verse the Bloodletters lasted about 6 rounds of combat. His last guy staid single-handed through 3 or 4 rounds. I was in shock.

Overall, very fun, he got to see what his army played like on the field. Definitely a strong build, it gave my borderline power-game build all it could handle and was a misfire away from maybe running me completely off the table.

2800 Orcs and Goblins V. Empire

I have been furiously painting and assembling Orc models for a while, excited about trying them out. There are three models in particular;

First, Gorbad Ironclaw. He "unlocks" my ability to make any number of units Big Uns which to me are well worth the points. So really I am paying 375 points to make 2 extra units Big Uns. That is how much I believe in that extra pip of strength...

Second, the Arachnarok spider. Assembling it is a pain in the rear, painting it not fun...but I want very much to try it out.

Third, the Mangler Squig.

So I made my typical "take on any army in any scenario" army and headed off to battle Fullur.

We rolled up Watchtower. That is one thing I LOVE about 8th Edition. Instead of endless, repetitive "Battle Lines" there are things like Watchtower and Blood and Glory, easily my two favorite scenarios from the new edition which make it a different and, in my opinion, better game.

I felt fortunate to "win" the right to occupy the tower. I had included a unit of Savage Orc Big Uns for this express purpose; with Frenzy and Extra Hand Weapons they can deal out 31 S5 attacks in close combat as long as they have 10 guys (including champion), and with their 6+ Warpaint save, they can take a pounding as well. In the tower they went.

He planted a largish Greatsword unit with 2 detachments slightly off center. I then experienced something I rarely face; I had too many units to be useful. I typically play elite armies where I can deploy everyone. However, with massive amounts of terrain on the field, I was going to struggle to defend the watchtower.

In the end I decided to use my Trolls and Mangler Squigs as a sort of "screen" and planned to rush my close combat units as quick as possible to keep him from assaulting the tower.

He outsmarted me in set-up. It has been a long time since scouts have ben an issue for me. This time he spotted my Doom Diver alone on my left flank and put his scouts 12-1/4" away. Oops.

Empire Turn 1
Leitdorf passes his test. The Steam Tank dials up 4 Steam points. He moves his cavalry on my right flank forward, then tank blows forward 12" on my left flank, his greatswords and scouts make minimal advances. Perfect.

He is set up to draw me into the center and ave hard-hitting units on my flanks in a "pincer" movement.

The Winds are great for him; he rolls double 3s, I channel one to get to 4 and he channels 2, plus has the Magic Arcanum.  Still, the only one I care about is Wyssans, thinking it is Remains in Play so I stop it and do not bother trying to block anything else.

Then he shows the strength of the Empire. The Volley Gun opens up on the Watchtower, followed by 2 units of handgunners.e kills 6 of my garrison in one go. Uh-oh.

His cannon picks off one Spider Rider due to unlucky bounce roll and his Skirmishers cannot wound the Doom Diver.

Orc Turn 1
My 100 man unit of Night Goblin archers promptly fails their Animosity test. Gorbad's special rule turns the result into a Waagh so they instantly turn and start heading towards his Skirmishers.

In the process they hit the Mysterious River and gain a benefit. The Spider Riders dash over to block him off and also find a benefit.

I move my Mangler on the right and put the trolls spaced so if he wants to charge he has to hit a troll or the Mangler. I thought he would have my troll flank if he charged with his knights...but really, it is a Troll. Do I care if he is on the flank? Not really....and if he charges, wins...now his flank is there for me to charge or he can reform to face me and my Tusker charge will mow him down.

If he has a brain fart and charges the troll with his Greatswords, the Mangler is there so an over-run hits it...my plan is in place.

Time for Magic. His Steam Tank is going to be a problem on my left flank. I do not bother to read Curse of the Bad Moon but instead think it will wipe out the Steam Tank. I get it off successfully on the boosted version without mis-casting...but mis-place it to hit his Steam Tank and Organ Gun.

Better placement would have been to hit his handgunners. It does but one wound...so even if both Steam Tank and Organ Gun are hit (they were...barely...) they do not reduce his shooting whereas the handgunners reduce his volume on a one for one basis.
Anyway, I do take a wound off the steam tank but not the Organ Gun.

Shooting is a huge disappointment; the Animosity failure pulled the Archers out of position. The Spider Riders cannot wound a scout. This, by the way, is one reason I never take Spider Riders; their role is shooting harassment...which their stat line means they cannot fulfill. If they were 5 or 6 points each they MIGHT be a unit I take. In this case, they are double that or thereabouts; I took them (and the wolf riders...and Night Goblin Archers...)because I had the models and they were painted.

Empire Turn 2
Leitdorf fails his roll and grants Gorbad Hatred towards him. They will never meet so it is irrelevant...


The Steam Tank generates just 3 for fear that wound I put on it will matter. It does not as he rolls the 10. He ends up adding an extra steam point but taking wound 2. His knights charge my right-most troll which is in the bog that grants regenerate. His Steam Tank angles to hit my wolf riders with his shot.

His Knights charge my troll but prove to be in his front arc. I am not worried; my Regenerate should keep me alive long enough to attack back. I just want to Troll Vomit him, then flee and get the charge with my boars. Insert evil cackle here.

He rolls a whopping 3 for the Winds. I plan to stop Wyssans and play it by ear on anything else; I do have a Dispel Scroll.

Instead he gets Irresistible Force and the Knights have Wyssans. The Calamitous Detonation should hurt though; his Wizard and Battle priest fail their Look Out rolls; but the wiz is not wounded anyway. In fact, of the 12 potential S10 wounds...5 fail. 5. Still, he did 7 wounds to himself...so that was good.

Meanwhile, his wall of fire takes down 3 more of my Garrison. I was lucky there;
See, his well-positioned Steam Tank rolled perfect, hitting a full rank of 5 Wolf Riders and the building. But he rolled 2 ones to wound, so only 3 wolf riders died (thanks to the River spell, they auto-passed their LD test) and he rolled a "1" for how many guys in the building were hit.

But then his Handgunners, needing 7s to hit, manage to hit with a third of their shots and wound two more; I get some justice when I ward save one of them.

His scouts kill 2 of my Spider rides.

Meanwhile, Leitdorf wounds my troll 3 times. I regenerate one which means his knights get to fight; 4 wounds, none regenerated. Oops.

His overrun proves my plan worked, though; he hits the mangler Squigs; 9 of the 10 ensuing hits wound; he gets some luck as the bog's regenerate keeps 3 of them alive. Still, he cannot stand the heat and flees.

I have a long history of models I want to try out stinking up the joint like a frat boy at a bean-eating picnic. Not so for the mangler; did massive damage, changed the momentum, he was AWESOME sauce with a side dish of super cool.
Orc Turn 2
This is the turn a failed animosity test will not matter but failed stupidity will hurt. Evey unit passes, though.

The Troll charges the fleeing knights who of course must flee causing him some anxious moments when it flees through the center of his battle line. The Troll re-directs onto his Greatswords with the Arachnarok following suit.

Meanwhile, the Wolf Riders charge the organ Gun and the Spider Riders charge his scouts.

 Every charge hits home. I am excited; the Arachnarok made it in unscathed. I have high hopes for it. they are little lessened when both his detachments counter charge. I knew that was coming.I plan to have the troll vomit on a character, counting on his regeneration to keep him alive.


I consider declaring the Waaagh. This turn could be key; making his Greatswords flee would be devastating. I need to ensure seeing off that deadly Organ Gun. Ultimately, though, the key turn will include a battle for the Wachtower itself. I decide to keep the Waaagh in my pocket.

I put my Lucky Shrunken Head Savage Orc Shaman in the Watchtower and also one of my Night Goblin Shamans.

I roll double 3s for the winds. He then channels 3 and I channel none. He has as many Dispel as I have magic.Grr. The Vortex stays in place (rolled a hit on the scatter dice) but fails to damage him; it does, however, kill 2 or 3 of my Wolf Riders. I have now done more damage to me than him with it.

I throw Gaze of Mork at the tank thinking I get more than a plus one. In retrospect...I got no bonus at all as no ORC units were in combat. even with my unintentional cheating I fail to wound the Steam Tank.

I then cast Gork'll Fix it at his Greatswords. It goes off irresistibly but I die to the result.I am not happy with that trade.

The Doom Diver hits the Steam tank, gets a 6, and manages to get tough 2 wounds. Sweet. Then my Night Goblin archers use the Volley Fire to get off an impressive 60 shots. Let us not forget they are Night Goblin archers, though...22 hits, 3 wounds, he saves just one. I just put 4 wounds on the Steam Tank in one turn, crippling it.

I consider my order of combats and ultimately decide to work left to right since there are no combats that will see the result of another one affect theirs. I am wrong, but more on that in a bit.

The Spiders kill 2. His character has 3 attacks...and cannot roll higher than a 2. He does kill one, I get another of his with my goblins, he flees, I run him down.

I then discover not only how bad Wolf Riders are (and I knew they sucked) but especially how bad they are against war machines. Only 2 cavalry models get to fght! You choose 6, but each cavalry counts as THREE models, not two. I went in planning 8 goblin and 5 spider attacks and got 3 and 2...with luck I still kill the machine off but am down to 4 wolf riders.

By the way, these will be the next to last points I score in the entire game...

His Master Engineer panics and flees, I over-run to get out of the line of fire of his handgunners. This is another mistake; I want to divert his fire from the tower, I could not care less about these guys. This is residue from playing armies where every casualty hurts badly.


Time for the big gun.

The Arachnarok goes first as his I5 guy had a great weapon. I must choose one attack to be Venomous Surge so I pick on his BSB. And promptly roll a 6 for tat, then a 2...one dead BSB. That was pure luck and pure awesome.

I then get a further 4 wounds from his regular attacks; Gork'll fix it turns three saves into fails on re-roll. I am impressed.

Then his Halberds attack the Troll. 5 hit, 4 wound, and...not one regenerate. Not one.O11 possible Regeneration opportunities, exactly one was successful. Oh, and the 5+ regular save and magic resistance I paid extra for? Neither ever came into play. Trolls are just as awesome as I have always found them to be...

His Halberds on the other side fail to wound the Arachnarok. The Goblins attack them back and do two wounds.

His Greatswords do 3 wounds. Uh-oh...I am actually losing combat by one when standards, ranks, charges are taken into account...but I roll a 3 for Thunderstomp, kill 2 and win the combat. Barely. I determine to seldom if ever again charge the Arachnarok in without some actual support...

Empire turn 3
Leitdorf passes. He calls 2 for Steam Tank points. There is a 5 in 6 chance he will get hurt this turn...but rolls a 2, the only result he could get that did not hurt him.

The Demigryph Knights charge Gorbad's unit.

I use my Dispel Scroll to stop his Wyssans. Everything else my Level 4 v. his level 1 means I can block with dice.

He just gets the Steam Tank into range to use the Steam on the Watchtower. I save one of the 2 wounds thanks to the enhanced Ward from the Lucky Shrunken Head. I save all three wounds his first handgnner unit does, 2 because of the Shrunken Head. Wow. The difference between a 5+ and a 6+ sure FEELS like a lot more than 18%...he does wound another with his other handgunner unit.

Meanwhile, when he charged with his Demigryph Knights, 2 of the 3 failed their dangerous terrain tests and were wounded. Gorbad's always strikes first no armor save attacks do 4 more wounds, so he is down 2 knights. He wounds my rank & file 3 times, 1 Warpaint save, so two down. I wound his last knight twice, he flees, I overrun but lose one of my own Savage Orcs to the dangerous terrain.These will be the last points I score...

Meanwhile, the Arachnarok is less impressive this time; he hits just twice, though that means two casualties. We get to my goblins without him doing any wounds; I put 4 attacks apiece on his battle priest and wizard; 1 wound to each. remember the calamitous detonation? That means the priest dies. Huzzah!

The Greatswords put a further 3 wounds on the Arachnarok; have maybe one turn left before he dies. He has just 2 wounds left...well, Thunderstomp is an unimpressive 2, only one wounds...which means it is a draw...which means his musician is the difference. I pass my break test.

Orc Turn 3
Every unit passes animosity. Well, that is...every unit except Gorbads, which decides to sit on top of the bog staring aimlessly at the edge of the battlefield.

This will mean a wasted turn getting into position.

My big block of savage orcs moves forward to support the Arachnarock. One or two more turns an I will join the combat.

The Spider Riders enter the river, take the shooting spell, 9 hits wipe them out, the Night goblins panic and flee...no wiping out the Steam Tank this turn.

I get Ere We Go off, then Gaze of Mork fails to wound the tank. The Doom Diver misses.

Arachnarok misses on 5 of his attacks...but Ere We Go turns every one of them to a hit. 8 for 8. The Venomous Surge had been directed at the wizard; no surge, but still kills him. he saves just one of the other 7 hits so 6 die.

His Halberds whiff.

The goblins use Ere We go to get all 8 hits successfully, wounding 3, and 2 of those die. when his Greatswords whiff, he passes his tests, but we take stock;

He has plans, nothing to get into the Watchtower, has just a few knights, couple units of handgunners, 2 detachments of Halberds left. Gorbad is around, the big Savage Orc unit and Night Goblin archers (if they come back) are untouched...he cannot take the tower, and if he does cannot hold it. The Arachnarok...or, as Space Monkey dubbed it, Deathnarok should finish off the Greatswords next turn and the Halberds are not getting the job done...we call it.

Conclusion
OVERALL he rolled really well. However, at the key moments he rolled poorly. Also, his army setup which at first scared me might not have been able to take the tower under any circumstances.

As soon as I tied up his Greatswords, there was nothing but shooting left to attack the tower; and with the hard cover granted by buildings, he simply could not generate enough firepower to take them out quick enough.

Even had he finished them off with shooting, I would get my 30 man block in there and be untouchable. Or if he assaulted with a handgunner unit and won, I had plenty of force to evict him.

Second, magic was game-changing. When I hexed his unit in one turn, it cost him about 10 wounds and saves as he had to re-roll numerous successful saves which became fails, hits which became misses and wounds which became whiffs. Deathnarok probably would have died in turn two on his turn and definitely in turn 3 without Gork'll Fix it, and 'Ere We Go was worth a whopping 10 extra wounds in the defining round of combat.

The funny thing about it is I was and am underwhelmed by the overall power of the Big and Little Waaaghs. There was one turn early where he had used all his Dispel Dice, I had three dice left and nothing I particularly wanted to cast...nor did either lore attribute ever come into play.

I still think I would rather have a combat oriented character than another wizard.

Still, there were 4 models that determined this game. Deathnarok, Gorbad, Night Goblin Shaman and Mangler Squig.

The Mangler changed a strong advantage for him into a massive advantage for me. If he hits Gorbad's unit on the charge, all those S6 attacks are going to hurt me badly. Instead they fled and were never a factor again.

Gorbad turned a failed animosity test into a good thing. Ironically, the thing I paid the extra points for...his ability to make any number of Orc Units Big Unz...never mattered as the only unit that saw combat would be the one that is Big Un anyway...

But being the BSB and General, the expanded 18" bubble...those were huge.

And Deathnarok single-handedly reduced the Greatswords and three characters from dangerous battle force to no characters and I think 4 or 5 models...nothing I was scared of even with Night Goblins...

Looking back I see several errors I made. Each was minor and did not affect the outcome...but are things to work on. Target selection is the biggest.

Early on I was sure I was going to lose. His shooting was taking out my garrison at a frightening place, his Steam Tank alone was dominating my left flank and my cramped position was taking me too long to get my Sage orcs and Boar Boyz into action. then he took 3 wounds off my Deathnarok in one go...

Slowly the game turned, though. The Mangler Squig was the key point. It let me get into his Greatswords. I do not know they would have gone after the tower if he had been able to tie up Gorbad and the Savage Orc Big Unz and have the Demigryphs to deal with my 30-strong Savage orcs...but I know that being able to tie them up with the Deathnarok due to his fleeing knights removed that option from him.



Ultimately, this was a very entertaining game and I hope to play many more like it.

Oh, and the irony here? At the moment we called the game, I suspect he was ahead on points; He scored over three hundred, I doubt I had that many...

1k Orcs & Goblins v 1k Empire

Welcome, stranger. You come to hear how the Orc band of

You might wonder why I, the once-respected chronicler of the Bretonnia Empire have been reduced from the noble halls of my forefathers to chronicling the crass, brutal ways of a small, nigh-irrelevant tribe of orcs rather than toasting the noble deeds of mighty knights.

I myself cannot answer tha question. Perhaps it hearkens back to a drinking session at court. A beautiful maiden that rumor held to be closely related to the King was visiting. Those of us unmarried and hopeful of a prosperous match were taking turns trying to impress her.

As the night waxed late the ale flowed freely and the lies even more so. Libations removed inhibitions and loosened tongues as we began trying to tell stories of our personal might and valor that eclipsed those of our rivals for her affection.

It is possible our stories verged beyond the realm of truth into the impossible. Noble after noble rose to his feet to tell tales of triumph and chivalry against ever more impossible odds. Each story grew more fantastic until, in my turn, I told a tale of defeating hordes of enemies single-handed.

So tall had grown the prior tales that mine, and my hubris, led to an attempt to eclipse them all by including all manner of foes ranged against me and a battle won against impossible odds such that none other might rise after me and put my deeds to shame with a greater tale.

As I wove my story I defeated goblins, trolls, orcs, beastmen, and even managed to best three doombulls in a final confrontation.

The passion with which I wove the story combined with the potent ale to end my nigt in ignominous fashion as I pitched forward in a stupor.

 I awoke from my sleep to find myself  facing a fell wizard. Though I saw not his lips move, yet I knew his intent. As punishment for my extravagant boasting, I was cursed to wander the world telling tales of those truly heroic in battle.

And so have I been. I never know when I will next be swept away to appear in the camp of some battle about to be commenced. At times I take on the appearance, mannerisms and sppech patterns of those I join. At others I retain my own sensibilities.

I feel as if there is a mystical force protecting me. Perhaps I am doomed to this existence forever. Or perhaps I can find peace when I am able to atone for my verbal indiscretions. I know not.

What I do know is I found myself in the camp of Alaric, a minor Orcish chieftain. As is their way, he loved to fight. He sought ways to be involved in more battles. The prior chieftain, whose name I never learned, had just died in single combat with Alaric for his failure to find enough enemies to fight.

Fresh off this, Alaric actually concocted a rather clever plan. The nearby plains were known to have a shrine held in high esteem by the forces of the Empire. Should they hear the Orcs were defiling it, they would doubtless come forth to fight over it.

Alaric donned the warpaint he and his band are so fond of and headed off to desecrate the shrine. His plan worked to perfection as a vainglorious captain of the Empire called Fetterman chanced to be nearby. Hearing of the approaching orc band, he formed a battle line.

I should grieve over his battle plan. On some level I know this, yet I find myself instead entering a sympathetic state with Alaric.

Fetterman anchored his battleline with the left flank of his greatswords against the chapel, the shrine just ahead of them. To allow his handgunners line of sight, he spread them out on the right flank, but this forced his flank protecting detachment swordsmen to stand behind, rather than beside the greatswords.

Furthermore, he put his knights in the center of his line, in front of the greatswords.

On his left flank  he anchored his archers against the building with their detachments again behind them. And on his extreme left he put the fearsome Helblaster Volley Gun.

Thus his deployment left his flanks vulnerable to fast moving Orcs who, should they be willing to risk the foreboding forests, could approach rather close without giving his missiles time to fire while his centre was quite crowded.

Alaric, meanwhile, ordered his Shaman Suevi to the far left flank, placed his boar-riding wild orcs on the left with that forest protecting their right flank. He protected the left flank of his foot-slogging band of orcs with the forest and put his fast moving chariot on his right. He and his lucky standard bearer, the ferocious Ariamir joined the orcs on foot.

As soon as the orcs go within range Fetterman began moving his forces forward. The archers on his left advanced to get a better firing position. His knights and Greatswords advanced and then the battle began in earnest as the volley gun blasted forth almost simultaneously with the handgunners on the right.

As smoke roiled over the flanks of he battlefield, the orc chariot disappeared in an explosion of iron, wood and orc as the volley gun shredded it in one go.
he flight of arrows seemed impressive, but killed just one of the foot Orcs who were heard to knowingly cackle about how "good my warpaint protects me".

Apparently the warpaint on the Boar-riders was not so good as two of them fell to the black-powder weapons.

Paying no attention to their falling brethren, the orc army surged forward. The Savage Orcs smashed into the knights as the Boar Boyz equivocated a bit, starting to charge the knights before slowing and aimlessly milling around.

Suevi eyed the greatswords and summoned the might of his magic, bringing the foot of Gork smashing down on them, slaying three.

As the combat commenced, Alaric saw most of his efforts blunted by the mighty armor of the knights, yet still felled one. At his side Ariamir proved he was more than just a good luck charm as he slew three knights single-handed.

Seeing himself alone and with not a single Orc having fallen to the mighty knights, the remaining knight took to his heels.

Startled by the ease of their initial victory, the orcs chased him for just a handful of steps before suddenly pausing.

Now it was Fetterman's turn to charge as he led his Greatswords and one detachment of swordsmen in a charge against the fierce unit that had just shattered his knights.

I have much to say about Fettermans' lack of skill in deployment but nought but good to sa of his courage for that was indeed a courageous maneuver and upon it the entire battle would hinge.

The handgunners had reloaded and their guns took down two more Boar riders as the archers advanced around the shrine, one dtachment garrisoning the building. The mighty volley gun was silent as it had no targets, so the crew began shifting it to better position.

Alaric went after Fetterman himself who would have died but for the strength of his armor. As it was, he reeled from the blows and blood poured forth from him.

Again Ariamir proved his skill as even the mighty plate armor of the great swords could not keep him from killing two of them. This time the rank and file proved effective, killing or badly wounding another 6 Greatswords to the loss of but 4 of their own.

The carnage proved to be too much for Fetterman. He began to flee. Seeing their mighty greatswords slain or fleeing, the remaining Empire forces took to their heels.

This indeed ended the battle. The orcs held the field covered in human blood and orcish glory. And so began the rise to power of Alaric, Ariamir and Suevi.

Warhammer; 1000 Beastmen v. Tomb Kings

Click on the pictures to see the parts cut out by the post margins....



Well, as you can tell from post links...been a while. Close to a year since I have played. A lot of things have gotten in the way, but I still love the game. Chance came up to play my brother Fixed Dice. We elected to take...lower tier armies, lets say.

Battle report below a line of asterisks, the rest is all preliminary stuff about thoughts  on army building, etc.

His preferred army is the Dark Elf and mine is the Warriors of Chaos. I would argue we play those choices rather well, knowing the ins and outs of what works for the respective choices within our play group.

This time he would be playing his secondary army, the Tomb Kings and I would be playing my secondary army, the Beastmen.

At 1000 points it is tough to fit much in. The Beastmen the way I play them revolve around a horde of Gor buffed with Wyssans Wildform and beast banner to become a tough, hard hitting instrument of death and destruction.

Unfortunately, at 1000 points I cannot fit in my level 4, Herdstone, and barrage of level 1's giving me free power dice. So I looked to a Doombull...and that was too many points.

Nor could I fit in all 5 minotaurs I have painted.

So I started with a Beastlord with Crown of Command and, at the last second, through on the Brass Cleaver. This gave me a LD 9 stubborn general who could dish out several high weapon skill, high strength attacks.

Next I went with a Wargor for my BSB, gave him the ubiquitous Beast Banner, and planted them both in the Gor unit which ended at 29 Gor. So I had above average strength and WS, each front line guy dishing out 3 attacks...well, okay, 2 guys were dishing out 3 (extra hand weapon and the Frenzy offered by the Wargor), 2 were dishing out 4 and one was dishing between 5 and 8. So I had potentially 19-23 attacks S4 or better. That is a pretty stout unit.

4 Minotaurs and, to give me the requisite 3 units, I threw together a 30 point Ungor unit. This was pointless, as Ungor have a 16" range with a low strength bow. They figure to hit less and a third of the time and wound less than half the time they hit. So IF they shot 5 times 6 turns, they figure to hit ten times and wound 5 or less. They are unlikely to shoot more than once or twice so they are the epitome of throw-away points. Honestly, they are something I would normally never take.

Fixed Dice showed up with 2 20 strong and one 21 strong unit of skeletons, 3 chariots, and a  Necrophinx (sic) backed by a level 4.

Just looking at his army I thought I was in trouble. I assumed the skeletons had bows and I knew I would struggle against the sphinx and against his Hierophant's magic. I had to get across the table fast and hit hard when I got there.


*********************************************************************************
We rolled for scenario, got battle for the pass, and, in a rarity, ignored it. Re-roll produced Dawn Deployment. I won the roll and set up first. I rolled both the gor and Minotaur units in the center and the Ungor to the right. As it turns out, I put them where I would have put everything anyway except the Ungor who would have gone behind the fence to my left. As it was, my Gor unit anchored its flank against a building, the Minos against a fence, and a forest directly ahead would give me time to redeploy if he out-deployed me.

He then set u his three skeleton units on my left...one behind a fence, one behind the forest, the other opposite my Gor. His Chariots went on the right (all directions as I look at it) and his Necrosphinx anchored the right side of the line.

So as I looked at it, his best unit was looking at my weakest unit, his center could hit both my units that mattered head on, and he could flank me with his guys on my left flank.

Meanwhile, he could sit back and shoot at me, softening me up as I crossed the field and magicing me to death to boot if he had direct damage spells. Advantage; Tomb Kings.

He failed to seize the initiative and I thought about it for a bit. I figured he should go first, but then thought that might give him an extra turn of magic and shooting. I decided to take the turn and charge ahead full speed.

BEASTMEN TURN 1
I wanted the charge with my minotaurs. For some inexplicable reason, I therefore moved my Gor less than I could. I parked 13" from him, figuring he would need an 8 to reach and therefore probably fail. My Ungor advanced in a vain attempt to prevent his necrosphinx from charging my gor in the flank in combination, and my minos advanced and angled to countercharge his skeletons if they hit me in front of the Gor.

Tomb King Turn 1
He revealed the one small flaw in my otherwise brilliant plan for world domination. He had a different plan than I did. His skeletons (as I now knew) had no bows...and he had no intention of advancing. He tried to charge the Ungor with his Necrosphinx. I was able, thanks to my nearby banner, to stand and shoot...and hit twice, wounding him once. He did not save. He did, however, fail the charge.

Wow, the useless Ungor I took by desperation and did not want have wounded THE nastiest model on the table. I apologize, Ungor. Well done.

Meanwhile, he rolls a 5 and 4 for magic, then channels, giving him 10 power dice to my 5 dispel...and he being a level 4...this could be painful.

He casts righteous smiting on his entire army (healing his Necro...grr...), and the additional attacks mean his bowfire gets 4 hits, but only one Gor dies.


Beastmen Turn 2
I move forward to get into charge range. My Ungor look to see if they can protect the Gor flank from the necro. Not really but they advance, fire their bows...and wound his chariots twice. They have demolished my super low expectations, already outperforming the most optimistic expectations anyone could ever have for them, dealing out 3 wounds to tough opponents.

Tomb King Turn 2

His Necro needs snake-eyes to hit the Ungor this time. His Chariots charge the Gor front. The theory is the Necro will wipe out the Ungor, flank the Gor, get to fight twice and with his Chariot impact hits, Sphinx, and regular attacks, he will do LOTS of damage to my Gor unit.

Again my Ungor outperform themselves, hitting just once with their stand and shoot...but that one wounds. Yep, the Ungor have now put two wounds apiece on the necrosphinx and his chariots. Best 30 points I have ever spent.

At this point I am pinning my hopes on the Gor takg all that punishment, passing my stubborn 9 break test, and the minotaur swinging the battle in my favor by smurf-slapping (Minotaur-slapping?) his Chariots in the flank next turn.

Things grow bleaker when he rolls 6 for power dice and again channels. His righteous smiting goes off irreversibly.

An so the chariots and Necro are back to full strength, in the key turn of combat he has extra attacks for all concerned...

The silver lining is he got Calamitous something or other, does a wound to his Hierophant and "kills" 4 skeletons (he regenerated 2 of the 6 wounds). So even though my awesome Ungor have done the more impressive wounds, at this point he only actual damage done to him has been done by him, he got the charges he wanted and the game is about to tilt heavily in his favor.

My Ungor fight bravely, hitting him twice, but failing to wound. Oh, well, they had a good run. He has 6 attacks, can hit just twice. 2 dead Ungor. Disappointing, but irrelevant...I will be running almost certainly. His Thunderstomp then rolls a pedestrian 2, killing 2 more. One Ungor left.

Who promptly rolls a 3. With my nearby Beastlord, I lost by 5 and need a 4 to stick around. His poor rolling starts to unravel his plan at the seams. There is no way that Ungor should have lived, much less held him up.

His chariots start to make up for it, doing a whopping 12 impact hits. 7 Gor make their way to the graveyard. He is going to win this combat anyway...

I have higher initiative so go first.

Beastlor opens up a can of whoop-smurf on their candy smurfs. He hits 6 times, 5 of them being wounds that go through, finishing off one chariot and leaving a second with just one wound.

The Wargor hits 3 more times, but does just 1 wound. Still, he is already down to one chariot.

The Gor get ridiculous; mustering 11 attacks, 10 of them hit. They then make up for this great success by dealing just 3 wounds...but that is enough to finish off his chariot.

I then roll insane courage...which means my over-run is a whopping 2". Oops.

Still, what could...and possibly SHOULD...have been a disastrous turn for me turned into a disastrous turn for him. The Ungor standing left my Gor free to try to rampage through his skeletons while the Sphinx was occupied by 30 points.

Beastmen Turn 3
The minos want to charge his middle skeletons that are hiding the Hierophant, but awkward angles make it too tough, so they charge the guys behind the fence instead. The Gor charge the skeletons straight ahead.

For the first time ever, my Minos get their impact hits. It helps as they put down three bundles of bones. The obstacle lowers me by 4 potential hits...but I still wound 7 more skeletons.

He then hits back with 8 successful strikes and 3 wounds. Armor save of 5+; no saves. Parry save of 6+ I roll 5, 6, 6. 2 saves. I then hit with all three stomps, his remaining skeletons crumble and I advance 4" with Bloodgreed.

Meanwhile, the Gor kill 7 skels, the Beastlor dedicates 2 attacks to the champ, wounding once and killing him, and getting 3 rank and file. The Wargor chips in a couple wounds. He kills 3 gor in return and crumbles. I again advance something like 4". I just cannot overrun. Grr.

His Sphinx finally kills the final Ungor, but that unit MORE than did its job. Even though he healed every wound they did, that unit occupied his Sphinx for 3 full turns. Go Ungor!

Tomb King 3
His Necro charges the Gor rear. He thinks for a long time about what to do; charge with the skeletons in support or no. Ultimately he wants to A) keep his Hierophant out of the combat (wise decision probably; my Beastlord would have been rht there trying to kill him) and B) not give me the easy combat resolution, as we both just saw the Gor rip through him by a (Wargor and Beastlord aided) 14-3 margin. He refuses to charge with them.

He then rolls 3 for Winds...they failed him at the key moment. A power-stone aided Cursed Blades makes his Necrosphinx potentially even more deadly, though.

I "make way" with my heroes, a potentially risky move...an enhanced Killing Blow could do a lot of harm to my cause. But with no Wyssans Wildform or other boost, the Gor do not seem like much of a threat.

The Beastlord does okay, hitting just 3 times, but all three go through for wounds. The Wargor hits twice but cannot wound and the Gor cannot wound.

He tries the super slay on the Wargor, hitting him but then rolling a 1 to wound. He attacks my general with the rest but only one hit...and that one is poison, denying him the chance to killing blow, and needing a 6 to save, I do so...he crumbles to resolution.

Beastmen 4
I reform both he mionotaur and the Gor to face his last remaining skeleton unit. It is just mopping up at this point; if his chariots and necrosphinx could only take off 11 Gor and 5 Ungor and his other unit of skeletons could only put one wound on the minotaurs, he stood little to no chance against the inevitable combined charge.

Tomb King Turn 4
He starts to move, then says, "I am just trying to avoid and survive at this point."
"Want to call it?" I ask.
"Sure," he says and I agree. All that is left is seeing if he can run 8" per turn between regular and magic movement and if I can catch him before the end of turn 6.

Mopping up
So what happened here?

First off, he remembered construction rules wrong. He thought he had to have 50% core points. As a result, he built and army where he had no intention of ever using half of it.

Second, his Necrosphinx woefully underperformed. While it did have the only success he experienced, taking 3 turns to kill 5 Ungor whilst taking 2 wounds in the process is...ridiculous.

As a result, he really had no way of actually damaging me. Maybe if he had somehow gotten two skeleton units to simultaneously charge the Gor and had a very fortuitous combat round he MIGHT have won that combat...but that would have counted on me A) being a complete tool with my Minotaurs to allow that, B) failing a re-rolled LD 9 stubborn test to flee IF he even managed to win the combat...which, without help from Chariot impact or Necrosphinx Thunderstomp and power attacks was not going to happen.

Meanwhile, he had no direct damage spells, so although his magic phases helped by giving him a few extra attacks and healing numerous wounds...it was a factor but not a game-changer.

Meanwhile, my Brass-Cleaver, Frenzy-fueled and Banner of the Beasts aided Beastlord ran around making Chaos Lords look wimpy, tearing up everything in sight almost single-handedly. The minos melted an entire unit of skeletons in a good defensive position in one turn. The Ungor looked like a real tarpit unit.

Everything went very, very right for me and it resulted in a surprisingly easy win.

After the game we talked for a while about the Tomb Kings.

I pointed out that with the Beastmen, I knew their weaknesses...an effective range of zero inches, if you breathe on them they die...but I also knew their strengths. Decent toughness, an ability to put out large numbers of decent strength attacks. I knew what they needed to do to win.

What do Tomb Kings need to do to win?

The upshot is...we found some things that MIGHT work, but they rely on A) having lots of points and B) EVERYTHING going right.

In other words, when I look at the Tomb Kings book, one word comes to mind...fail.

And that is in comparison to the Beastmen, typically regarded as one of the lowest-regarded books out there.

On the bright side, he enjoys playing them, so we will hopefully get in a few more games with and against them...though none with a power house like the Warriors of Chaos.


And now time for the traditional "We survived" Group Photo.

How much difference do the 8th Edition Rules make for playstyle after playing 7th?

In some of the last posts I mentioned a few tactics that have altered for 8th edition from 7th. How much difference does that make when actually playing a game?


Lets take a brutally obvious and easy one. In 7th edition it was possible for a weaker unit to take out a much stronger unit simply by getting the charge and having a small amount of fortuitous dice rolling.

This was due to two rules; 1), Chargers strike first and 2) removing casualties that were struck rather than from the rear rank.

As a result it was always better to charge than to be charged. Glass cannon units were extremely deadly as they could wipe out the front rank of the enemy before it ever had a chance to attack, thus winning the combat by virtue of charging.

These days with the “remove casualties from the rear rank” and “strike in I order” rules in place the charge has less importance; Great Weapons no longer go ahead of “faster” weapons, even if your front rank gets wiped out the unit gets to fight and thus recover from a bad start, and troop speed actually matters.

Additionally, Steadfast has a huge impact.

This makes a huge difference. In 7th edition a block of 100 Skaven slaves was just 200 victory points donated to the opponent. At some point they would get charged, lose their front rank, and be testing on snake-eyes to not run. And that was against weak units like Empire State Troops or High Elf spearmen.

In 8th they are still going to lose that combat but will almost assuredly have more ranks than the opponent and thus have an excellent chance of staying around for multiple rounds, thus creating a morass that occupies a tremendous amount of space and alters the battlefield. They do not care about the casualties they are taking as they are likely Steadfast on close to LD 10.

Even if they never do a casualty to their tormentors, they have a respectable role and an important one. So these rules have a huge impact on how the game is and should be played.

These rules alone make infantry viable. All throughout 7th edition I never found value in taking even Chaos Warriors as more often than not it was just giving free points to the opponent…and Chaos Warriors are expensive.

Too many times I got charged by things like Grail Knight units, character-reinforced Cold One Knights, dragon-riders, Ogres…all of whom moved faster and thus had a near-guaranteed charge, did so many casualties that IF I got to attack back it was with my unit champion, and thus my expensive Chaos Warriors fled the field or were run down without ever raising a weapon in anger.

In fact, I cannot think of a single time in the whole of 7th Edition I was able to get the Chaos Warriors into an advantageous combat...I do remember them fleeing multiple times after having their front rank wiped out on the charge...the only time they even saw second rounds was against things with too few attacks (a Gorger) and when they were stubborn.


And that was with arguably the best infantry unit in the game. In 7th edition they were worse than useless; taking them was doing a favor for your opponent. In 8th they are close to a no-brainer; I say close because many people still argue huge blocks of cheap Marauders are better.

In 8th edition even a humble unit such as S3, 1 attack Night Goblin has at least a slim chance of doing some damage, and even if they cause no casualties, they are worth putting on the field which means stronger, harder-fighting troops such as Dwarf Warriors, Saurus Warriors, Chaos Warriors, etc. are not simply worth putting on the field but are often among the strongest choices in the entire list.

Some people have gone overboard the other direction; many people proclaim infantry is the king of the battlefield with cavalry and monsters not being worth taking. I disagree...but I "get" their reasons.

Another huge change was the way marching can occur. In 7th, just planting a single model within 8” of the opponent slowed their movement to a crawl. “Tactics” of flying cheap, pointless units behind the enemy line so they had to walk 4-7” per turn into the face of massive lines of missile fire was considered brilliant. If you could do it with a cheap, pointless model like a 15 point naked Skaven Engineer, so much the better.

Now by the simple expedient of passing a LD test troops can still march. To be sure, this is normally a virtual guarantee as most important units either have relatively reliable LD of 9 or 10 and/or a re-roll from a near-by BSB.

Yet the role of march blocking is still important as not every unit will be within range of the BSB, nor will the flanks always pass their tests. This means the march blockers are returned to their rightful role of support rather than game-dominating.

They still have a place. Sometimes even the chance of slowing that flank unit down is worth the allocation of forces to that side of the field. But now there is a defense against it. It means instead of say…automatically including 4 units of Chaos Warhounds to go march-block the enemy, now you have to decide if the vastly reduced role they play in screening and potential march-blocking is worth the points.

We could add swift reforms and combat reforms to the equation. It used to be that if someone hit the flank the unit would never turn to face them. Now there is the chance they will be able to do so which makes a great deal more sense aesthetically, logically, and from a game-play standpoint.

The negative to the reform if they lost the combat is an excellent deterrent to strategies that ignore flank charges, providing a defense against failed charges becoming THE deciding factor in a game. Those charges are still important as with the bonus for a flank charge, the fewer return attacks you are facing while still usually getting your own max attacks, you can often break a tougher unit with a well-timed flank attack.

At the same time, the clever opponent who hits the flank will also have a second unit hitting the target, thus pinning them in place and preventing the reform. This gives them the advantages of supporting attacks and the +1 combat resolution for hitting the flank that is denied the target. Thus the interplay between the charge zone arc and potential to combat reform becomes important as both generals attempt to maximize their own attacks while minimizing the number of attacks the face.

Even after combat the ability for most units to reform adds yet another level of control for the astute general. It prevents the ridiculous “I throw this 30 point unit in front of your powerful unit who then must stand facing away from my deathstar unit who will now wipe them out because they could not face me” maneuvers and makes for a better game.

It makes “speed bump” units still valuable but not vastly more powerful than their point values. Whereas in 7th, an astute player might drop a unit of harpies in front of a frenzied unit knowing they had to charge or get destroyed, then would over-run and either be out of the battle for several turns as it would take one full turn just to turn around, another to regain the over-run distance, and by then the battle would have moved away. Thus a 60 point unit could remove 300 or more points from the battle with no risk. The gain had no relation to the cost.

Now a move in the wrong direction still rightfully slows a unit down, but with the swift reform option, they can still get back in the action before the end.

Hopefully I will have time to write the second part of this post before heading on vacation...because there are plenty more changes that not only affect how the game is played...they affect how troops are chosen.

Does playstyle matter?

I am looking somewhat forward to the comments on the post that will pop up two days before this one yet dreading them at the same time. I am virtually guaranteed to see lots of disagreement, but I stand 100% behind what is there.

Others may have success with the WoC, but the reason I have had success is indisputably because I figured out a method that worked with their strengths that match mine, and it works well.

At the same time, I have had a lot of success with other armies as well. I never did lose a game when playing with Wood Elfs (though that was 7th edition) and Dwarfs, even though they have vastly different playstyles than the WoC do. Nor did I ever lose with the Orcs and Goblins, though again that was only back in 7th.

Only with the High Elves have I hovered around 50% and, in fact, am probably under. Ironically, the army I have lost the second  highest percentage with is the WoC. In sheer number of games, it is WoC I have lost the most with by a landslide.

The background then is that I play a lot of different armies. I have games under my belt with the Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins, Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs, High Elfs, Wood Elfs, Lizardmen, and Beastmen.

With such a wide divergence in armies, is there a wide divergence in my results? Sometimes.

With the High Elf army in 8th edition, it is mostly been my failure to correctly apply the rules that cost me an easy victory in one game and in the other I just plain got outplayed from list-build to final tabling.

With the Beastmen it was hardly a fair test of tactical acumen as the game was specifically set up to be a "soft game" between too lightly regarded armies and we deliberately did not play to completion.

With the Dwarfs it is a bit more complicated. I had a good plan with them each time and drove it to completion but they are so slow they are just too boring to play.

Some of the other guys have varied their styles within their own book. Fullur, for example, wavers between magic-heavy skink based builds and the occasional close combat build full of carnosaurs, Krox/Skink blocks, and Saurus.

Yet his results have been relatively consistent.

One of the points I made loudly and repeatedly in the prior post was the Warriors of Chaos work very well with my skill set. In every game I have ever played…Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40K, Stars and Bars, Johnny Reb, various Napoleonic's….where there was an option for a small, elite force or a larger but inferior one, I have invariably preferred and done better with the small, elite, hard as nails force.


This is not to say I am incapable of working with other elements. I have had excellent success with the Wood Elf, Orc and Goblin (7th edition) and Dwarf armies, all of which run a different style. I have had modest success with the High Elf army, however.

All of this leads to an easy, obvious question; how much impact does the style of army and its interaction with player play style have on success? Can a good player pick up any army book and expect similar levels of success? Or will he have outlier results with particular books.

For example, if someone picks up the Vampire counts book and wins 90% of their games, can they then expect to pick up the Empire book and have the same success rate, plus or minus a couple percentage points? The armies function very differently.

The same question would hold true for say…the Dwarf army versus the Lizardman army. One relies on war machines and stuffing magic while the other has few war machines and pummels opponents with magic. Can the same player expect similar results with both armies?

In some cases the answer is a clear and distinct yes. Some people are so well versed in the game rules, strategies, and theories that they can bounce from one style to another with no ill effect on their game. Others are so bad it does not matter if they use Beastmen or DoC, they are going to lose.

For the vast majority of us, however, the army we use has a huge impact on our results. Sometimes it is simply because we believe in a particular strategy.

For example, in a recent game I had a Chaos Sorcerer on a dragon. Outside of perhaps the Great Bray-Shamans, Chaos Sorcerers are clearly the best close combat wizards any army has available*. Combined with being on a dragon rider, he had fearsome potential to output attacks. Yet when the chance arose to charge a smallish unit of Skaven Clan Rats, I only did it because the game had gotten out of hand.

It is a clear and obvious charge for anyone who believes in the Glass Cannon strategy (though the ridiculous ward save I tooled him up with somewhat contradicts more traditional glass cannon strategies). With the large number of attacks he is putting out, he is likely to win the combat and, barring ranks and Strength in Numbers Shenanigans, break them in one round.

Because of his rugged nature, he was quite likely to win a grind combat as well since they would struggle mightily to put wounds on him and he should do enough casualties to win the combat despite the SCR advantage possessed by the rats.

It is a charge I make one time out of ten, and that one time is because of extenuating circumstances. Yet it is something I estimate I win, whether they flee the first turn or not, well over 80% of the time. And that might be underestimating it…I just do not trust 9 attacks + thunderstomp to beat 3 extra ranks and a standard all the time. Should hit 6 attacks, wound 4ish, then need 2+ thunderstomps to go through and to me that is not a big enough margin for error.

For others, they are thinking that is an awesome margin for error and they are sending in the dragon every time. They are better at the strategy than I am, something I am aware of and frankly acknowledge.

I also acknowledge there are others better than I am at the Dwarf strategy of huddling around a hill shooting stuff, then having their warriors slam into the weakened troops that come across the field. All too often my close combat Dwarfs wander out from the protection of their guns. Sitting back patiently is not my strong suit.

Clearly, then, a glass cannon type army is one that requires a significant change in approach. For example the Beastmen army has elements that resemble this; the Minotaurs with Impact hits, large numbers of high S attacks but absolutely no defense are very much a glass cannon. Getting them to work requires some thought and planning.

And, demonstrably, I am not good at that, having allowed them to get wrecked by a charge before they ever got to swing. Sure, with some practice I might improve.

The thing about it is, no obvious solution has presented itself as yet. There are a few plans I have bounced around, but for the moment their glass cannon nature has them being one of the last things I take since it is a strategy I struggle to employ correctly.

They end up being for me what the Dark Elf Assassin was for Fixed Dice from a game into last edition; I love the look, love the model, love the potential, and never take it because they just die without doing anything.

At the same time, the remainder of the army is also well outside my comfort zone. The Gor are the best option for an “anvil” but are a very poor choice; they have literally no armor. At all. Their magic has potential but does not get them into combat quick enough unless I take the despised Lore of the Wild.

Their weapon skill is pedestrian, their strength below average (though not, perhaps, below the median score) and their leadership sub-par. Their monsters are wildly overcosted and suffer the same glass cannon drawback as the minotaurs; they hit hard but die easy.

I know there are ways to use them and use them effectively. What I do not know is if I have the gaming personality to do it. I am not a risk taker. Chancy combats, long-shot weapons, and so forth are not my forte.

Contrary to what people who do not get the way WoC are effective think, I am incapable of just shoving them forward ignoring everything else. (A bad strategy, by the way, the WoC are frequently accused of. I suspect there are people out there who do that. I am willing to bet they win some games…but not nearly as good a percentage as I do)

Yet if I were going to adopt such a strategy, the WoC would be the army I would do it with. The Beastmen are forced into it by having even less effective shooting than the WoC but combining it with armor-less troops.

So their apparently strongest strategy…throw hordes of troops straight forward and hope to win grind combats while somehow getting their glass cannon troops into combat unscathed…is one I am psychologically incapable of using.

The obvious take-away is I will not only struggle to play them well, I will struggle to enjoy using them as game after game sees them melt to shooting past the point of combat effectiveness or else play a mindless “Oh, my turn? March straight forward. Are we in combat? No? okay, go” game which I have no interest in.

This is not to say there are not other armies I can play around with. The High Elf army is not my typical style either. Low T, lightly armored, and full of glass cannon units; Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard, White Lions…and units that are far more specialized such as archers, spearmen, Dragon Princes, Repeater Bolt Throwers.

As much as target priority matters for the WoC…which contrary to the interwebz matters a great deal in a 6 turn game…it matters even more for the High Elfs. ASF great Weapons are great for the first turn…but leave anyone alive to swing back and the pretty little elf army gets some new make-up in the form of bloody necks as they get decapitated by the weakest of enemy troops.

Can a person used to using a sledgehammer get used to using a precision laser?

I keep using myself as the example but the same is true of every player. Learning to use a different play style can be extremely difficult. For the Dwarf player used to little or nothing happening in the magic phase to suddenly attempt to play a list revolving around using magic would be quite a shock. For a player used to using the narrow formations of the Brettonian lance formation to suddenly figure out how to effectively use the Empire detachments could cause migraines.

Which brings us right back to the initial question; how much impact does the style of army and its interaction with player play style have on success?

I would argue a great deal. Obviously an average player using the DoC is going to do better than they would using the Beastmen. But would it be a 10% increase in wins? 50%? 80% more wins?

Or does it matter what the strengths of that player are? For example, if they excel at choosing targets for shooting but consistently pick the wrong spell to cast at the wrong time, how well are they going to do going from the Wood Elf army to the Lizardmen?

Or if they have mastered the art of choosing the right spell but are so nervous about failed LD checks that they strive to avoid close combat, how well are they going to do with the Beastmen or Warriors of Chaos? Or if they are afraid to use the glass cannon but strong at using an anvil and hammer strategy, how are they going to do with the High Elf army…oh, wait, we have seen that one. It was not pretty.

Or if they are very strong at using predictable, dependable armies, how will they do if suddenly handed the Orcs & Goblins or Skaven to play?

Mindset, comprehension of strategies, comprehension of tactics, understanding of probabilities, willingness to attempt long-shot maneuvers are all elements that affect how a player will do with an army that does not reinforce his strengths. Naturally if the army suits his strengths as a player his results will be the best.

If he is adaptable he will still do very well.

But if an army does not suit his strengths and he does not adapt well then he will tend to struggle mightily.

All of these things are possible to overcome but not all are worth overcoming. If a player sits down to every game, looks across the table and thinks he has little to no chance will not enjoy the game and soon not wish to play.

I am reminded of a game from last edition where one guy took a list that was maxed out on War Machines; cannons, grudge thrower,organ gun, anvil of doom. The rest of it was shooting troops; thunderers, I think. Just seeing that across the table was discouraging and depressing for the guy who faced it.

I was depressed just watching another player using O&G try to cross a field with NO TERRAIN AT ALL against an army putting out over 100 armor piercing shots per turn in one of the early games we played.

Both games were over before they started and even if the side locked into losing those messes won…was it an enjoyable game?

So for someone who enjoys using hordes of low quality troops to overwhelm good troops with a bit of shooting mixed in, how much fun would it be to play a small number of guys? Or if a guy loves magic, how much will he like using the Dwarfs? Or if he is infatuated with shooting, will he enjoy using the Beastmen or Woc? Or if he likes close combat, will he like using a Wood Elf list? If he likes using small, hard troops, wil he enjoy using vast hordes of wimps?

It goes on and on. There are large numbers of possible outcomes, and in most cases, the enjoyment of the game comes down to the style of army he likes to play and play against.

There is probably someone out there hearing that Dwarf list and saying, “Smurf yeah! I want to play against that!”

More power to him. It is a list I would neither want to use nor face.

I do think it is funny that I have seen dozens of lists where the player talked about how strong a list they had made and how much destruction it could wreak in a particular phase and then later  I find out that my lists, which I have deliberately avoided making the strongest ones I could, have been overpowered.

Perhaps I should shelve them forever and just use armies that do not fit my strengths. Then again…that just does not sound fun to me at all.

A lot of it is because I do not enjoy using horde units incapable of doing damage. (Okay, so certain O&G players swear by Night Goblins with nets...to me, they just are not a fun unit). I do not enjoy using armies with no save. I do not always enjoy using armies that have highly specialized units.

And obviously people do not enjoy facing an army that plays to my strengths. So that in turn retroactively makes it not fun for me.

I hear a female of intimidating girth warming her vocal chords.

Really unfortunate in many ways because this edition has been the best one I have ever seen in Warhammer, going back to 1995, but if it comes down to me having fun at the expense of others I just do not want to play. If both players do not enjoy the game then what is the point? Conversely, if it comes down to me playing but it being drudgery…again, I simply do not want to play.
 
So the trick is to find an army that is fun to play, balanced with our group, and in my possession.
 
Because yes...playstyle matters. A lot.