4999 Warriors of Chaos versus 4999 Ogre Kingdoms

Lately all I have been able to get in have been small games. Not that there is anything wrong with that...I enjoy the occasional 750 point or 1500 point game. I have even been toying with the idea of some more War bands experiments.

But there are times you want something big, epic...more akin to something out of Herodotus than the petty squabbles of smallish games.

So I sat down, looked at all the models I owned, and put together a list that incorporated all the models I wanted to play except one (I wanted to put in the Giant, but did not want to go over 5K...and he was the one I least wanted to play so out he went.)

It was not a particularly well-designed army...too many expensive troops, little flexibility, and no real focus.

But it would be fun. My goals were simple....get off that one epic charge that resulted in ridiculous numbers of casualties.





The Set-Up


He placed first and dropped his Yehtees on my extreme left flank. I had my plan in place before he ever placed a model...a small blocking force on the left, push my real power through on the right.

The Warriors of Chaos are better than almost any other configuration at pounding mass quantities of lethality into a small frontage than almost any other force. With a village in the middle and a forest on the right, I would be able to force the action to my advantage. Any and everything he sent after my left flank was to my advantage.

So I responded by placing a unit of Marauder Horsemen off to the left opposite the Yehtees. They were just a ruse...their job would be to sweep up around the village and turn him back towards the right.

He then put some Bulls behind the Yehtees and I put some Knights to the right of the Marauder Horsemen. Again...turn him back to the middle. The Knights were strong enough to be a legit threat (the Marauders more just redirect than anything).

I then put another unit of Marauders behind the village...it would not impeded their progress at all. Soon after, I deployed the troops I had planned all along...12 Knights with a Juggernaut riding Exalted, my Exalted hero with Banner of Chaos, etc.

At some point my brain cramped and I threw a unit of 25 Marauders on the extreme left. I still cannot explain why.

Ogre Turn 1
He moves forward somewhat faster than a walk but slower than a march. I stop most of his magic, but he DOES get off the gut magic that makes his Rhinorx stubborn with enhanced Toughness. No big deal...I will just dispel it on my turn.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 1

My games with Kev often have a turn or two of chicken..who can maneuver JUST SO to get the charge, as an Ogre bull charge is not a good idea to receive...but neither is receiving a charge from ranked up Knights with a couple heroes in the unit.

I get a break as I roll on Wulfrik and his band of Marauders. They come on directly behind Greesus.

On the downside, Sigvald the Magnificent manages to roll an 11 and is Stupid.

I slowly advance, setting up counter charges for about turn 3ish.
I do get off one bit...a nice combo charge with Galrauch and the Dragon Ogres against his Giant (Shaggoth had declared a charge against some Bulls, but he chose to flee and hung Shaggy out to dry.

I had Galrauch and a level four Prince as well as a second level Wizard on a Disc with Infernal Puppet...as many dice as I intended to be casting, I figured to have a couple of mis-casts.

Sure enough...my first attempt of the game was Galrauch mis-casting. No damage as it did not wound him. The Prince gets off Infernal Gateway, but he Scrolled it and I get nothing else useful cast successfully.

I fire the H-cannon. My guess drops it all but on the head of Kev's leading unit, it scatters 2"...and lands in between three units, touching none of them.

On the left, I do manage to kill a Gnoblar with a throwing Axe, but they bounce off the Rhinorx like snowballs off a furnace...and it is about this point I remember I forgot to Dispel his unit buff.


Galrauch manages to hit just twice and only one wounds. The Dragon Ogres get the Giant twice. 3 wounds...pathetic. I should have done 5 with 6 attacks needing 3s to hit and 2s to wound and another 6 tries with the same numbers.Instead, 12 S7 or S8 attacks against a lower WS result in 3 wounds. Then the Giant does 6 wounds back, killing one Dragon Ogre outright and putting two wounds on the second.

It is now that I roll an 11 for the Dragon Ogre break test, but have a re-roll because of my Battle Standard Bearer. So I roll a 10...even on their Stubborn re-roll, they properly (at the time I thought improperly) break and run. Ouch.

Ogre Turn 2

His Gorger arrives and comes on ready to counter-charge my Marauders. His Gnoblars on the left charge my Marauder Horsemen, his Rhonorx charge the other unit. His Irongut fail their Fear test and cannot charge my massive Knight unit (both Exalted heroes caused Terror) and his Hunter failed another Fear test and could not charge Shaggy. Would anyone ever pass a Leadership test?

Meanwhile, his scraplauncher careened into my 12 knight unit.

My Marauders stand and shoot down a whopping 4 Gnoblars in five attempts.

Then Magic starts. I have a history of losing the magic phase...such as having 14 levels of magic, facing 4, and getting crushed. So it is no surprise when he gets off Brainbustah to kill two Chaos Warriors and then casts Troll Guts on his biggest unit.

In close combat, I get a surprise. His Gnoblars fail to wound my Horsemen, in return the Horsemen and Horses slew 4 apiece. The Static Combat Resolution advantage of +4 meant nothing, the Gnoblars broke.

I restrained from pursuing. It was a (near) perfect plan. He would kill my other horsemen, over-run, and clip these Horsemen, allowing me to Combo-charge with my Chariot and 5-Knight unit.

To the surprise of...well...nobody, the Rhinorx wreck the Marauder Horsemen. My other unit passes a second Leadership test and my trap is set up.

His Scraplauncher does 6 Impact hits. Wound this be a bad time to point out I have had three Chariot charges...with Scythes...for a combined SEVEN impact hits? Whine, whine whine.

Anyhow, he does 5 wounds with them and I save 3. His crew and beasts fail to wound. My Exalted hero does 4 wounds back and he breaks.

Galrauch manages to hit the Giant thrice, but only 1 wound. The Giant wounds him back and, worse yet, the result means Galrauch cannot fight next turn. I am in deep, deep trouble.

The charge of my Knights on the left is something that has less than a 50% chance of winning. I should probably make him chew through the horsemen first, but I want the epic charge. So I am likely to see the left flank disintegrate, lose my biggest point model, and I am not overly confident in the ability of the Dragon Ogres to rally.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 2
The Warriors of Chaos have a simple game plan. When in doubt...charge. When in trouble...charge. When desperate...charge. When you have the advantage...charge and over-run.

Unless...of course...Greesus uses his ability to make you stupid, which he did to Sigvald.

Wulfrik considers charging out of the Marauders...I was thinking Greesus was like the Cauldron of Blood and removed rank/standard bonuses. Ultimately I left them with him. He charged in.

Shaggy charged in on the Giant. I forgot the Knights would not leave room for the Chariot...a bit rusty. So I charge them in anyway and move the chariot to counter-charge if I lose.

the big Knight unit charges his big block of Ogres.

Galraugh has his Infernal dispelled, but the Prince gets it off on a big unit. Unfortunately, it only does 5 S5 hits...and the Luck Gnoblar saves the only wound it does. I get Treason off and his unit wounds its champ once and one regular guy once.

Shaggy does his job, killing the Giant to save Galrauch. He then fails his restrain roll (on a ten!) and overruns into the forest.

In a challenge, the Exalted Hero kills the Ogre champ. The other Exalted hero does nothing, the Knight champ and 2 other Knights and their horses combine for a rather pathetic 3 wounds total. His Butcher kills one Knight in return. He breaks and flees. My plan is now working to perfection. I am wiping out the right flank while holding off his forces on my left.

Wulfrik goes bananas, hitting Greesus all four times and even getting 2 wounds to go through. Because he had to challenge, it was only those two fighting. Greeses enacts bloody revenge, hitting just once, but that one wounds and multiplies into 3, killing Wulfrik. Still, Greesus falls to Static Combat Resolution. The Marauders follow and hit his Bull unit, getting out of the way of the Gorger in the process.

On the left, my Champ faces his Rhinorx riding champ in another challenge, but fails to wound, then rolls a 1 and therefore does not save. The spell he cast on the first turn I twice failed to save makes my job tougher, and the Knights only get off 4 wounds, 3 of which are saved. I save everything else he throws at me and my gamble, while it had low reward, still works as it holds him up for a turn.

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 3

When in trouble, the Ogre Kingdoms charge. When they are bored, they charge. When they have the advantage, they charge. So...in a shocking maneuver in a game between the Ogre Kingdoms and the Warriors of Chaos...they charge. And Charge. And charge. It was like a WASP in Saks Fifth Avenue.

He rallies Greesus, but the intentional fleeing Bulls decide they have business elsewhere and fail to rally.

I stop all his magic.

His Leadbelchers unleash at my H-cannon. His first one mis-fires and does 4 wounds to him. However, he does put 2 wounds on the cannon and kills a chaos dwarf cannon-guide.

His Gnoblars throw sharp stuff at the Chaos Prince, but he Ward Saves the only wound they inflict.

In close combat, he gets just wound off on Shaggy, who responds with 3 wounds to him.

My Exalted hero and Juggernaut, in a challenge, combine to do just one wound and take one back. That is...well...disappointing. My close combat troops are combating the idea of actually doing damage...

The other exalted, the Knights and their mounts combine for 6 wounds...not terrible, but not close to their capabilities, either. He kills another knight, but it is a foregone conclusion he is running.

The Gorger can only put one Marauder down, and they go to work with their Great Weapons, wounding him twice.

His Sabertooths attack my Dragon Ogres, wounding once, but I wound them twice and over-run.

Against the Rhinorx I cannot wound him even once. He only wounds back one time...but his new charges put down all the Marauder Horsemen. He overruns with the Leadbelchers and yehtees...but I am fine with that. they are out of the game for yet another turn.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 3

He makes Galrauch and Sigvald stupid with Greesus...yes, Sigvald has now been stupid a tidy three out of three turns.

I respond by charging Greesus with the D-Prince and H-cannon. The khorne-marked chariot charges his Rhinorx.

Time for Magic. The prince rolls 5 dice for Infernal Gateway...and gets 4 '1"s and a "2". I roll on the chart...an 11. I use Infernal to make it a 12, thus getting it off irresistibly. 7 S8 hits...and I get just 3 wounds out of it. I say "just" because with 78 dice needing 2s, I expect a little more than 3.

I FINALLY remember to dispel his Super-Rhinorx spell.

Shaggy wounds the champ a couple times, but takes a couple wounds in return.

The D-Prince puts down Greesus, which causes a 5 man unit behind him to break, they run into the Marauders and are destroyed.

The Marauders wound the Gorger once again.

The Chariot, for me, does a record 3 impact hits. Only 1 wound goes through, the Warriors put 2 more wounds on him and even a chariot horse wounds them, putting down a Rhinorx (finally). He returns fire, killing both Chaos Warriors and taking out the chariot.

Ogre Turn 4

His Gnoblars want to charge my Dragon Ogres but fail their fear test. He does, however, put a lot of pressure on Wulfrik's Marauders, hitting them in the flank with Maneaters, a Tyrant, and a Butcher.

His other Gnoblar unit throws enough sharp stuff to wound a Dragon Ogre.

Then he opens fire with his Leadbelchers against the Maraude4rs who have been wandering around my back flank.

The first one mis-fires, wounding him once. The second one...mis-fires, doing another 5 wounds, killing 2 Leadbelchers. His shots do just 2 to the Marauders, his Leadbelchers fail their break test and flee.

And never come back.

Yes, for the price of 2 7ish point Marauders, he loses an entire 4-man unit of Leadbelchers.

This, for all intents and purposes, is game. He does not move his Rhinorx again, I am able to get my Cannon and Prince into combat with the maneaters (the Marauders being Stubborn due to proximity to my BSB).

I get his Yehtees in a corner, charge them with my Marauders and wipe them out.

Sigvald goes stupid twice more (for a total of 5 of 6 turns he was Stupid) and Galrauchs' breath weapon fails, but the game turned ugly.

The Warriors of Chaos mop up the Ogres. But they never see Shrek...

Overview

During the game, it felt like the game was on a razor's edge through about 4 turns. Looking back it looks a little different.

At the time, I was bummed that my Dragon Ogres failed, that none of my charges was very effective, and that the left flank was doing exactly what it was intended to do...get chewed up slowly, holding superior forces in check while I used over-whelming force to obliterate the right wing.

The fact my plan was working slower than intended, combined with him forcing the Dragon Ogres to flee and Galrauch being in danger meant it FELT a lot worse than it was.

Meanwhile, the 12-Knight unit was chewing through everything in sight. I was crushing his stronger flank while using throw-away points to slow him down. My left flank had just about 800 points and was doing a great job of keeping his Rhinorx, leadbelchers, 2 units of Gnoblars, the Yehtees, and a unit or two of Bulls occupied....which meant I had a nice advantage on the other flank.

The Traditional "We Bring Carnage and leave with mayhem" Survivor Photo

I guess more important than anything else, it was a very pleasant 4 or 5 hours gaming with one brother next to me playing another game (their epic Steam Tank v Grail Knight grind-fest should be detailed!) and, in our post-battle redux, all involved copped to having a really great time.

Ultimately, that is the point of the game. Did we have fun? And the answer was a resounding yes.

Warriors of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos Versus Lizardmen and Ogre Kingdoms

Last months games that I participated in were...desultory at best, hardly worthy of a report. The first game I took place in this month was a fun little scenario but did not make a good battle report. Correction; it makes a great one and here it is:

I see Minotaurs to my left that look dangerous. I charge, they die. I see some sort of Gor...Gor, Ungor, bestigor, Centigor, does it matter? They look dangerous, I charge, they die. I see other units. They look alive. I charge, they die.

Wow, that was....fun? Entertaining? Illustrative of what happens when Chaos Dragon Ogres and Dragon Ogre Shaggoths are allowed to charge? Yeah, lets go with that one.

Well, then we elected to do a team game and randomly rolled to see who would team up.

Little secret; I wanted to team up with my brother Fullur. Nothing against Liam and Kev who are both good friends...but hey, I coulda teamed with my brother!

Then again, there was a certain synergy to rolling out the forces of Chaos as a team. We went secret dispositions. Liam and I elected to divide the field in two. We knew based on the lake in the back corner the Lizardmen were likely to set up there and Warriors of Chaos versus Ogre kingdoms is just fun, so he took the left wing and I took the right.

Our battle plan was simple...drive down the middle, turn one flank, and roll them up.

I put two units of Chaos Marauder Horsemen in front, my Shaggoth behind one and 3 Chaos Dragon Ogres behind the other with my General in between. My biggest fear was a first turn Scraplauncher hit or Comet of Cassandra strike while bunched up.

Chaos Turn 1

There are certain limitations to an all-Chaos army. The battle needs to be fought in base to base contact with such little range. My Horsemen have a 6" throwing axe, his flying dude...Jabberslythe? has a 12" range, and otherwise we need to be in close combat. So turn one was pretty quick...march forward, but not a full march. I wanted to keep him from first turn charging me.

Lizardmen/Ogre Kingdoms Turn One

He generally advances, somewhat quicker than a walk but slower than a march...except his Scraplauncher.

Magic; uh-oh. I had 2 lists prepared, and went with the one with no magic. So they had 6 Power Dice to our 4 Dispel Dice. Comet of Cassandra was our fear, so we let Uranon's Thunderbolt go and it put 2 wounds on the Minotaurs. Forked Lightning we had to dispel since he had so few dice left, and Celestial Shield went through (and would matter!)

His Scraplauncher guess was dead-on to do some damage to my Marauder Horsemen. But it mis-fired...and the result was I got to fire it. My guess was decent, the scatter better. I hit 2 Leadbelchers, a Bull, and his Giant...and could only wound the giant.

His Leadbelchers then put a whopping 20 shots at my Marauder Horsemen, killing 5 of them. The 6th one somehow passed his panic test...on the second try. Score one for the Will of Chaos special rule.

Warriors of Chaos/Beasts of Chaos Turn 2

I pondered and pondered. I thought my Dragon Ogres could hit his leadbelchers...but it would be C-L-O-S-E. If I failed, he would get my flank with his giant. I could be in deep trouble. I almost charged, then changed my mind.

Unfortunately, I would have made it. It is unfortunate because my General, subject to Frenzy, WAS within range and now charged in alone.

I moved my Horsemen to make the giant charge them so he could not flank my general or hit the Dragon Ogres and moved my Shaggoth up on the right flank, ready to charge the Scraplauncher next turn.

Meanwhile, one Ungor Skirmish herd came on...on opponents choice of table edge, so they started behind us. Second one came on on our choice, the left flank. The Jabberslythe flew behind the enemy lines.

His Aura did nothing...his tongue of flame attack also whiffed. My Marauder Horsemen could not hit the Giant for whatever reason...still shell-shocked maybe?

Close combat. First up, declare Word of Agony to shorten the odds...or I could just forget it. Fortunately, I did enough wounds to outright kill an ogre and he could not wound back. I( won by 2, he passed his test and remained. Oops.

Lizardmen/Ogre Kingdoms Turn 2

The Giant terror-breaks the single Marauder horsemen, so that unit is done having done nothing. Then the other unit also fails their terror test, flees, and their whole purpose...keeping said Giant from charging my Dragon Ogres...was not only not served, it would keep my Horsemen well out of position to do anything for at least two turns even if they rallied.

So his Giant charges in. he does some reforming and adjusting to give himself my flanks if the combat is drawn or nobody flees. Over on the left the skinks surround the Gor Raiders and go to town.

Uranon's Thunderbolt puts 2 wounds on the Jabberslythe. Comet of Cassandra is successful and we cannot stop it with all our Dispel Dice. It lands dead center on the Minotaur unit.

The Scraplauncher only hits one Ungor and fails to wound. The Chameleon Skinks prove their worth, however, putting 6 wounds on the raiders which allows him to throw his javelins at the jabberslythe. Say goodbye to the Jabberslythe.

At this point, Liam and I are in trouble. Our most potent moidel is dead, our left flank is bottled up and being shot to ribbons, our right flank is in bad shape with the very real possibility of being flanked and destroyed in one or two turns.

His Giant charged so attacks first. Fortunately, he gets a harmless "3", I pass my toughness test, and get to attack back.

News flash; Chaos Dragon Ogres with a champion can make 13 S5 attacks. The giant dies, falls on the Leadbelchers battling my general, though he does no damage. The Dragon Ogres over-run into those leadbelchers. They get to attack first, kill 2, my General can only manage 1 wound and takes one himself.

The last Ogre breaks. This causes the next unit...which has his general...to break and the scraplauncher, also within 6", also breaks. It runs through his Bulls bringing up the rear...who promptly fail their test and flee straight off the table.

Chaos Turn 3

This turn plays itself...sort of. I charge all his fleeing stuff which either runs off the table or is caught. In one turn 1000 points of Ogre Kingdoms leave the table. We now have about 1500 points to concentrate on the Lizardmen, though most of our army is out of position. No problem, this is just turn three.

Unfortunately, our team had an epic fail moment. For fear of getting shot by the poison javelins, Liam chose not to move his General on Chariot and/or unit of Minotaurs even though they were gith dead center where the comet of Cassandra was going to hit (with like 3 markers!) most likely next turn as the special Skink character let him re-roll to see if it hit.

Lizardmen Turn 3

Epic fail on their part. He rolled for the Comet...a 1. No problem, he can re-roll it...another 1! Liam's oops might not cost us!

The skinks move into a building in the village off to the left. He moves his Scar-Vet General (who passed EVERY Stupidity test in the entire game!) to keep the rear of his priest-protecting skink block from getting charged.

Then he opens fire on the Chariot, wounding it 2 more times.

Chaos Turn 4

We could not get away with it forever...the comet struck. 3 Skirmishers die, a previously broken unit is finished off, the Chariot is hit 6 times and wounded once, the Minotaurs take 4 wounds...ouch. That hurt!

Meanwhile, he elected to flee my Dragon Ogres. At this point it really seemed the game was over. We had a commanding points advantage, he had almost nothing. I stopped taking notes...and then the game got epic.

Lizardmen Turn 4

In what seemed like a desperation move, he charged his 3 Kroxigor at my Chaos Dragon Ogres. Think about it for a second...he has 9 attacks needing 4s to hit to my 13 attacks needing 3s to hit. Both of us are likely to wound and allow no saves.

Turns out it was a brilliant move. He does a whopping 5 wounds, I can only wound him twice. I break...which breaks my Marauder Horsemen and Liam's Ungor herd.

My General had just enough to charge his skink block and had to due to Frenzy. I finally remembered word of agony which should average 2+ dead skinks. It whiffed. I had 5 attacks needing 3 to hit and 2 to kill. I put down 1 skink. My horse did one...which means I lost the combat to ranks, outnumber, etc., broke and ran.

What a turn-around! Suddenly, he looked to have the game in hand as we had very little not running.

His general ended up dismounted....which proved to be a break. It allowed him to charge the skinks in the building, win the combat, they broke and fled, he was now in the building.

Meanwhile, my Shaggoth charged his Kroxigor, who failed their Fear test, broke and fled.

He shot and shot and shot at my General who passed about 10 armor saves to survive.

My Dragon Ogres failed their rally test, but the General and Marauder Horsemen passed.

His Kroxigor passed their rally test with exactly a 7. Grr.

At the end, we both had 2 table quarters. We had killed both their generals, earning 200 bonus points. That brought our score to 1466, while they scored 1262. In a 2000 point game, that gives us my favorite result...Draw!

It felt worse. When his entire right flank disappeared on turn2/3, it felt like a massacre in the making. However, the skinks with buildings and rivers to hide behind proved very elusive and the Kroxigor proved more effective than the Chaos Dragon Ogres.

My Shaggoth managed to go the entire battle without ever actually getting into combat, though he did force some breaks.

It was an epic game with huge swings...when the Jabberslythe and Horsemen died, we looked to be on the wrong end of a massacre. A turn later, they looked to be on the wrong end of a massacre. Then a desperation moved turned brilliant, and again we looked to be on the wrong end.

Even as the last turn started, it felt like rally tests could turn the game in either sides' favor. Ultimately, a close-run, entertaining battle had the perfect result.

Lots of fun, and I hope to have many more games like that!

Campaign Battle:Tomb Kings versus Ogre Kingdoms

Played in I believe 4 games Saturday, 3 for our Small Campaign and one for our big campaign. If I ever start writing a campaign history for the big campaign like I am in the early stages of doing for our small campaign (the intro is at the bottom, the beginning of the tale of Captain Nemo above it, so you actually need to read the bottom post first if you really want to waste your time reading my fiction, then this battle will have a place.

Set-up
Part of the campaign philosophy is resource building, and part of it is attrition. Essentially, the idea is for each person to have a few turns to build a power base before we start fighting each other. Each territory allows x amount of troops to be maintained, and you always fight SOMEONE when you enter a territory...but if none of the other players owns it or is moving there, then we fight random armies.

Since our starting War banners have 2250 and the size army they will face ranges from 1750 all the way up to 3500, most of the time the players will face armies smaller than their own, though there is always the danger they will face a larger army.

So one of the players NOT involved in that territory plays a randomly rolled size/type army. We know going in we will most likely lose, so the goal is to give the opponent the best game possible and, in our own interest, to cause as many casualties as possible in hopes they will be "permanent" casualties that will slow the opponent by making his army smaller.

The object then for the real player, as opposed to the "neutral" player, is two-fold;

1, be sure to win the battle so you get the points for the territory you will capture!
2, minimize the casualties you take.

Obviously, the closer you are to home, the easier it will be to replace casualties. The further from home you get, the harder it will be to replace the odd Chaos Knight or Wood Elf Spellsinger if they fall in battle.

I had never played the Tomb Kings and wanted to give them a shot.

Funny thing is, in our gaming group people have a very low opinion of them even though many people on the tournament scene consider them mid-tier.

And that brings me to another side-bar, of the type I am unfortunately famous for.

Types of players.
We like to think of ourselves as a pretty laid-back group. A daemons of chaos army with 2 bloodthirsters and a host of their other power units would be looked upon with much suspicion. On the other hand, a host of Night Goblins with minimal to no fanatic and war machine support is considered great fun, if hopeless and anyone ever played it.

A level up from us would be the people with 70+ shot armies (any of the 3 Elf armies, the Dwarfs, etc) or 12+ Power Dice type armies that are much tougher lists to play both as and against.

Another level up would be the comped tournament scene where double-Steam Tank lists might win every game and finish towards the bottom of the standings, as tournament organisers seek to balance the inherent flaws in the army books that allow some pretty powerful builds.

And at the top would be the no-holds-barred, bring that 4-Dragon High Elf list with 8 Bolt throwers and the rest all Knights.

Why do I sketch out these things?

because how you play has a direct and decisive link to how good an army is.

For example, our group has at least 3 views on tiers:
A:
1) High Elf, Dwarf, Dark Elf, Wood Elf
2) Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos, Empire, Skaven
3) Vampire Counts, Bretonnians
4) Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, Tomb Kings

B:
1) Dark Elf, Dwarf, Wood Elf
2) Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos, Vampire Counts, Dwarf
3) Bretonnians, Empire, Skaven
4) Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, Tomb Kings

C:
1) Dark Elf
2) Wood Elf, Warriors of Chaos
3) Dwarfs, Bretonnians, Lizardmen
4) Skaven, Empire, Tomb Kings
5) Orcs and goblins, Ogre kingdoms

Those lists may not be 100% the feeling, but they are pretty close to what I have picked up in discussions. Now, if you are familiar with the tourney scene, you might notice a few huge discrepancies:
- Vampire Counts a low tier? Dwarfs and Wood Elfs mid-to high tier? WoC that high? NO Daemons at all?

And that brings me back to the original point. The way we play, certain armies simply are ineffective, and others are hugely effective.

Does not mean our tiers are right or wrong, nor that the way we currently play is right or wrong. Just means the altered perceptions/expectations make for some interesting match-ups.

Well, my brother Fixed Dice was good enough to build the 1750 Tomb King list and I went to face kev's Ogre Kingdom 2250 War Banner


Tyrant -Cathayan Longsword, Sword of Battle, Gut Maw, Daemon-Killer Scars, Sword Gnoblar x2

Bruiser BSB - War Banner, Lt. Armor, Ogre Club

Bruiser - Sword of Might, Cathayan Longsword, Bullgut, Sword Gnoblar x2

Bulls x3
Bulls x3

Gnoblar Fighters x20 - Handweapons, Sharp Stuff
Gnoblar Fighters x20 - Handweapons, Sharp Stuff
Ironguts x5 - GW, HA, Bellower, Unit Standard
Ironguts x4 - GW, HA, Bellower, Unit Standard
Leadbelchers x4 - Lt. Armor, Leadbelcher Cannon
Scraplauncher
Maneaters x2 - Cathayan Longsword, Lt. Armor

Gorger
Slavegiant

Ironically, I know his list better than mine, but mine was more or less:
Tomb Prince with flying cloak and item giving him 4+ Ward
Liche Priest on skeletal steed
Liche Priest with Casket of souls
10 skeletons
31 skeletons
20 tomb guard with full command
Tomb Scorpion
Bone Giant

The field had a big corner hill on the left with rough ground half way across the table and about 12" in from the edge, a forest and other assorted terrain on the right that essentially closed it off meaning the game would be fought in the middle and left flank.

For scenario we rolled and he chose Break-through, which meant he needed to get 3+ US5 units off my side of the table for outright win, or if not then standard VPs.

Unlike most games, I figured with 500 fewer points and playing as the Tomb Kings, this would not be a particularly good game, so I took neither notes not pictures. Check out butts vente vente, as some might say (hindsight is 20-20 is the more normal phrasing).

Knowing he had to come to me and with the Casket of Souls planted on the hill to my left, I put the Tomb Guard next to it, then the 31 Skeletons with an 11 wide front, then the 10 wide archers in line to their right, with the Tomb Scorpion behind the archers and the Bone Giant between the Tomb Guard and Casket.

On my left flank he put a couple units of Bulls, a Slave Giant all angling to circle the rough ground. In the center he had Leadbelchers behind about 8 bulls or Ironguts or something. Beside them he put his Scraplauncher, then his Maneaters were more or less opposite the 10 archers on my right flank.


Tomb King Turn 1
Since I had planted the Casket on the hill, I knew my best chance for an upset would be doing mass damage in the first turn or two. I advanced the Bone Giant towards the left, hoping to cut off and bottle up his Bulls. If I could engage one unit, it would keep about 6 Bulls and his Slave Giant bottled up and allow me to concentrate on the rest of his force. It had a chance of nullifying the points disadvantage.

I advanced both units of Skeletons 2": If we both started at the 12" in deployment line, 1" would have been plenty but our group habitually throws the opponent off by stepping back a quarter inch, half inch, even a full inch or two to make shooting impossible or at least more difficult. The Tomb Scorpion started circling the right flank.

Time for the magic phase. I was going to take it slow since I did not really know the army. First, I did the one that lets the skeletons fire: he feared the Casket, had but 2 Dispel Dice, so let everything go but the Casket.

And so began some of the most effective shooting I ever hope to see.

Everyone has their own theory. Some spread out their shooting. I try to wipe out units because I do not trust even LD3 units to fail their tests. So I fired the 11 at his maneaters and got off a wound. Then the 10 guys got an extra firing and also wounded it. I was pretty ecstatic.

I still had some magic left, but at this point the only option was moving stuff. I advanced the Bone Giant a bit more, then made a huge mistake.

Not because I thought it was a good idea or because I needed to, but just because I still had an incantation to use, I moved my 31 skeletons back to their original location...and thus out of range for the shooting phase. Idiot.

Unfamiliarity with the army. Boo hiss.

Well, then it was time for the casket. I rolled...2 "4" results, a respectable 8 total. He picked up his two dice, rolled, the first one fell...a "4". The second one fell...a "4". yep, 4 out of 4 dice rolled a 4.

Oh well, in the shooting phase, the 10 Skeleton unit made me forget my blunder by actually putting enough wounds on the Maneater unit to kill one...and the other promptly failed its panic test, turned, and ran right off the board!

Great start for me, lousy start for Kev.

Ogre Kingdom Turn 1
His bulls came up and the front unit got past the rough ground, but just as I hoped the back unit was stuck behind the rough ground and the first unit. Everyone else came right up the middle. He had no Magic, and the Leadbelchers were covered, so he only fired with the scraplauncher.

After some hasty calculations, he said, "I think you are 18" away, so I will guess 16" and it will scatter on to you." Then he aimed it at the 31 skeletons, measured, and sure enough, 16" put the template where the edge was about a quarter inch shy of touching. And naturally on the scatter dice he rolled a "hit" result. Otherwise it would have scattered 10".

Not a very effective turn for the Ogres, though really, there was not much else he could do. He was doing everything right, but the results were not panning out. Which, by the way, is why we all think the Ogre kingdoms are below average. Their results are pretty sub-standard.

Tomb King Turn 2
Bone Giant charged the Bulls. I moved the Tomb Scorpion around the 10 skeletons, then retreated them 2". I wanted to make him take as long as possible to get the charge on me.

Magic: First I tried to give the Bone Giant an extra attack. He decided he could not stop the Casket again, so stopped that instead, then stopped some movement thing I think, but both the 31 and 10 archers fired again. With a few exceptions, I was hitting ridiculous numbers..like, needing 5s to hit, on 11 dice I got 7 or 8 hits about 4 or 5 times. A couple of times I got only 1. But overall, I am sure the dice favored me in the shooting phase.

Anyway, in the Magic shooting, I put a wound or two on his Bulls, then used the Movement one to move the Tomb Scorpion into his Bulls. Normally I would not make that charge...but in this game, my goal was to inflict casualties, not make combo-charges and win.

The Casket went off and was absolutely devastating. Almost every unit took a couple of wounds, and the Scraplauncher took so many it was utterly destroyed (and I just noticed...we neglected to have units within 6" take LD tests...which is just as well, as it was a close-run thing anyway)

Shooting was good to me again, as I think I took out 1 or 2 Bulls in this turn. That is pretty good for shots needing 5s to hit and 5s to wound, then he having 6+ or 5+ saves. He did make a fair few saves in the game, but he failed a fair number as well.

Anyway, close combat was cool.The Bone Giant hit on all 4 attacks despite needing 4s, (yes, he should have had 5 attacks...*sigh*...not knowing the army) but of his second 4, only one could hit, it wounded, but I could not hit again. Still, 5 wounds in one charge...I was not complaining. I did take one wound back, but he failed the LD test and fled through the unit behind it. Which failed its test and fled. With them bouncing into and through each other, they ended up fleeing about 12" on a 3" and 7" roll, which meant I caught neither, but I was just fine with that. I was not just bottle-necking that flank, I was rolling it up.

Meanwhile, the Tomb Scorpion did a couple wounds, but lost to his Battle Standard and outnumbering. Might even have taken a wound?

Ogre Kingdom Turn 2
With his own right wing (my left) in shambles and the Tomb Scorpion threatening to jam up the middle, he had to take some desperate measures...like charging the Scorpion in the flank with Gnoblars. His Slave Giant then charged my Bone Giant.

Everyone else tried to advance up the middle, but it was really a choke point, held up by the rough ground on my left and battle involving the Tomb Scorpion on the right.

In close combat, his Giant did the one where he auto-wounds me and I get no attacks. So I lost the combat there. The same result was rolled the next turn.

Meanwhile, his Gnoblars surprisingly failed to wound the Tomb Scorpion (it has become a running joke that Gnoblars are the deadliest OK unit as they have killed the Dark Elf special Assassin, the named one, and held up Slayers and Dwarf Warriors, killed a Chaos Warrior, and just generally been awesome).

I then had a choice; try to hit an Ogre or hope I could slay 4 Gnoblars to draw the combat if I was not wounded by the Ogres? I chose that route, but could only slay two of the little boogers. His Ogres duly failed to wound (almost not even hitting!) but he still won the combat by 3 or 4, the Scorpion crumbled to Combat Resolution. His Gnoblars then over-ran, trying to get clear of the Bulls, but their poor roll put them squarely in front. He was still bottled up.

By now I was wishing I had been taking notes as things started to run together in my head. So I will summarize:

The center of the field saw his Goblars pin him in place for my shooting while his left-flank Bulls managed to keep running and run right off the board. His Slave Giant and my Bone Giant beat up on each other for quite a while, until his Giant broke and, thanks to some Gnoblars, escaped my pursuit which instead hit the Gnoblars.

At some point I got the one through that heals, got it through twice and got the Giant down from I think 4 wounds to just one.

Meanwhile, his Gorger came on, but the Casket went off and one-turn killed it. Kev was quite unlucky with big, important units like his Gorger and Scraplauncher doing nothing, both being destroyed by the Casket.

Naturally the Giant beat the Gnoblars, who ran, allowing me to charge his by now badly wounded Giant. I finished it off.

At some point, my Tomb Guard flank-charged his big unit. I whiffed completely. He did a couple or 6 wounds back, one the combat, and got his big hitters facing me. Next turn he did like 15 casualties, the unit melted. He finally was on the board! Well, okay, he had the Scorpion points, but this added about 371 points or so, giving him maybe 500?

The only other success he had was the bull unit that had beaten my Scorpion got around the Gnoblars, charged the 10 Skeletons, wiped them out. He elected to leave the table with them as this happened on turn 4 and he did not think he would need them, but that was before his Giant broke.

Also at some point he finally got to fire with the Leadbelchers, getting a whopping 24 shots...but only doing like 2 or 3 casualties.

Tomb King Turn 6
I hastily totaled up the points I had given up. Not many. He really, really needed to do lots of damage to win. I was winning, and pretty handily at this point. Actually, I was winning by enough that he probably needed to get three units off the board to win or else completely wipe out my Giant, 31 man unit, and find a way to kill my Tomb Prince or Liche Priest.

So I moved my 31 skeletons back 2", hoping he could overrun them and get off the board. Later, a couple measurements showed that move took them out of his charge range, so I undid that move to ensure he got the charge. On the dark side, that meant I was more than 12" from the table edge, so he was absolutely going to have to score big on his turn.

Ogre Kingdom Turn 6
To be honest, at this point I was feeling somewhat bad. Yes, I wanted to do a few casualties. But the toll was too heavy...
-Scraplauncher
-Gorger
-2 maneaters
- Slave Giant
- 2 3-Bull Units
- several other Bulls or Ironguts to shooting
- A full unit of Gnoblars

Even worse, though I did not know the exact standings, I had a sinking feeling that I was winning. The only points I had given up this point were the Tomb Scorpion, Tomb Guard, and 10 Skeletons...maybe 600 points?

Time to do what the Starving Crazed Weasels do best; cheat in our opponents' favor :-)

This is when I undid the move of my 31 skeleton block to ensure he got a chance at them. He was going to do nothing with his Gnoblars, until I pointed out they could get lucky with sharp stuff and might do 5 wounds (I forgot he only needed to do 2 to get at least half points). Also, we debated if some or all Gnoblars could throw, with him arguing 2 ranks, me arguing all ranks. I won.

That is one reason I love this group. If we were actually hyper-competitive, we would have been on the opposite side, as both of us were arguing for the good of our opponent. Funny stuff.

So of course he charges with both Leadbelchers and the big unit.

The Gnoblars through their shiny stuff and, when the dust cleared, did 2 wounds...taking me to 3, giving him 1/2 points for the Giant. Huzzah!

I have seen the Ogres in battle several times. I have not been impressed. Until this one.

His Bull Charge took out about 7 or 8 guys. He declared a challenge. I asked how many attacks he had. With Sword-Gnoblars, 8. I pointed out that if I accepted the challenge, the most Overkill he could get was 5, whereas if I refused it, he would have the potential to get the full 8. I actually thought little enough of Ogre effectiveness to think the chance of the extra three might matter. Silly Weasel.

So I moved the champ to the back and he proceeded to kill5 rank and file...I should have stayed in the challenge :-)

Then his other guys went to work. When the dust cleared, he had done something like 26 casualties. The last couple Skeletons crumbled.


Who Won?
When we totaled up the points, we then used the chart for the smaller of the 2 armies, 1750. There are two ways to look at it:

1) If you interpret the rules strictly, We had a draw.

2) If you interpret them the Starving Crazed Weasel way, had he scored just 5 more points he would have scored a minor victory. Since you need a minor victory to take over a territory...we "discovered" 5 points he had earned and gave that to him. Because that's how we roll.

Yet his post-battle scsualty rolls were despicable.

Even though I mistakenly used the "Massacre" chart instead of "minor Victory" chart, he had 20% better chance...and STILL lost the Giant, a couple Bulls, a Maneater and mAybe (?) the Scraplauncher.


Post-Battle Thoughts
Okay, this was a phenomenally fun battle.

I was helped by some spectacular rolls, no mistake about that as my shooting was far more effective than it should have been, the Casket took out two dangerous units in timely fashion (if his Gorger kills my Liche Priest on the Casket, he was my Hierophant, and my army would have crumbled very badly), and the Bone Giant was awesomeness personified.

He was single-handedly responsible for 6 Ogre Bulls, a Unit of Gnoblars, and the Slave Giant. He also single-handed defended an entire flank.

On the flip side, I badly-mis-played the Scorpion, forgetting he would take wounds from CR. I should have combo-charged him and the Tomb Guards. As it was, the Tomb Guards stunk up the joint as they attacked the wrong unit at the wrong time.

I have played against the Tomb Guard and as them. When I was against them, I could not do enough casualties to overcome their healing abilities and, despite inadvertently cheating (I was taking 5+ Ward Saves with Dryads and 6+ with Wardancers even though the magic weapons of the Tomb Guards cancel them out) was taking more casualties than I was doing anyway.

I think this speaks back to my initial discussion of tiers. In my hands, the Tomb Guard is a very sub-standard unit, but in the hands of someone who plays them correctly, they are excellent.

After the 2nd turn, the Casket was a non-factor as few of his units faced it, so had no line of sight and it was not problematic. However, when they were facing it and it went off, it made me go blind from overexposure to awesomeness, as if I were watching a Panda do Kung-Fu.

On the other side, there is very little Kev could have done different. I think about the only things I would have done different had to do with the Leadbelchers. If they had been able to shoot more than once, they might have been more effective, though their 12" range and the way the field got bottle-necked mean even that may not have been possible, and had they been anywhere else, he might not have gotten his mini-DeathStar unit into action. So it is probably not a good quibble.

Which says an awful lot about the Ogres.

Played about as well as they could be against an army 500 points lighter, they struggled all game long.

It is definitely a match-up I look forward to seeing other people play, as the Tomb Kings have some fun little toys like their Chariot units and Ushabti to go with the fun Bone Giant.

Good times had by all.

Except the dead models. They had no fun.

Oh, and final point? Had the Gnoblars not done those 2 wounds in the last turn...just sayin'. Sometimes games turn on seemingly small, insignificant things.