2800 Orcs and Goblins V. Empire

I have been furiously painting and assembling Orc models for a while, excited about trying them out. There are three models in particular;

First, Gorbad Ironclaw. He "unlocks" my ability to make any number of units Big Uns which to me are well worth the points. So really I am paying 375 points to make 2 extra units Big Uns. That is how much I believe in that extra pip of strength...

Second, the Arachnarok spider. Assembling it is a pain in the rear, painting it not fun...but I want very much to try it out.

Third, the Mangler Squig.

So I made my typical "take on any army in any scenario" army and headed off to battle Fullur.

We rolled up Watchtower. That is one thing I LOVE about 8th Edition. Instead of endless, repetitive "Battle Lines" there are things like Watchtower and Blood and Glory, easily my two favorite scenarios from the new edition which make it a different and, in my opinion, better game.

I felt fortunate to "win" the right to occupy the tower. I had included a unit of Savage Orc Big Uns for this express purpose; with Frenzy and Extra Hand Weapons they can deal out 31 S5 attacks in close combat as long as they have 10 guys (including champion), and with their 6+ Warpaint save, they can take a pounding as well. In the tower they went.

He planted a largish Greatsword unit with 2 detachments slightly off center. I then experienced something I rarely face; I had too many units to be useful. I typically play elite armies where I can deploy everyone. However, with massive amounts of terrain on the field, I was going to struggle to defend the watchtower.

In the end I decided to use my Trolls and Mangler Squigs as a sort of "screen" and planned to rush my close combat units as quick as possible to keep him from assaulting the tower.

He outsmarted me in set-up. It has been a long time since scouts have ben an issue for me. This time he spotted my Doom Diver alone on my left flank and put his scouts 12-1/4" away. Oops.

Empire Turn 1
Leitdorf passes his test. The Steam Tank dials up 4 Steam points. He moves his cavalry on my right flank forward, then tank blows forward 12" on my left flank, his greatswords and scouts make minimal advances. Perfect.

He is set up to draw me into the center and ave hard-hitting units on my flanks in a "pincer" movement.

The Winds are great for him; he rolls double 3s, I channel one to get to 4 and he channels 2, plus has the Magic Arcanum.  Still, the only one I care about is Wyssans, thinking it is Remains in Play so I stop it and do not bother trying to block anything else.

Then he shows the strength of the Empire. The Volley Gun opens up on the Watchtower, followed by 2 units of handgunners.e kills 6 of my garrison in one go. Uh-oh.

His cannon picks off one Spider Rider due to unlucky bounce roll and his Skirmishers cannot wound the Doom Diver.

Orc Turn 1
My 100 man unit of Night Goblin archers promptly fails their Animosity test. Gorbad's special rule turns the result into a Waagh so they instantly turn and start heading towards his Skirmishers.

In the process they hit the Mysterious River and gain a benefit. The Spider Riders dash over to block him off and also find a benefit.

I move my Mangler on the right and put the trolls spaced so if he wants to charge he has to hit a troll or the Mangler. I thought he would have my troll flank if he charged with his knights...but really, it is a Troll. Do I care if he is on the flank? Not really....and if he charges, wins...now his flank is there for me to charge or he can reform to face me and my Tusker charge will mow him down.

If he has a brain fart and charges the troll with his Greatswords, the Mangler is there so an over-run hits it...my plan is in place.

Time for Magic. His Steam Tank is going to be a problem on my left flank. I do not bother to read Curse of the Bad Moon but instead think it will wipe out the Steam Tank. I get it off successfully on the boosted version without mis-casting...but mis-place it to hit his Steam Tank and Organ Gun.

Better placement would have been to hit his handgunners. It does but one wound...so even if both Steam Tank and Organ Gun are hit (they were...barely...) they do not reduce his shooting whereas the handgunners reduce his volume on a one for one basis.
Anyway, I do take a wound off the steam tank but not the Organ Gun.

Shooting is a huge disappointment; the Animosity failure pulled the Archers out of position. The Spider Riders cannot wound a scout. This, by the way, is one reason I never take Spider Riders; their role is shooting harassment...which their stat line means they cannot fulfill. If they were 5 or 6 points each they MIGHT be a unit I take. In this case, they are double that or thereabouts; I took them (and the wolf riders...and Night Goblin Archers...)because I had the models and they were painted.

Empire Turn 2
Leitdorf fails his roll and grants Gorbad Hatred towards him. They will never meet so it is irrelevant...


The Steam Tank generates just 3 for fear that wound I put on it will matter. It does not as he rolls the 10. He ends up adding an extra steam point but taking wound 2. His knights charge my right-most troll which is in the bog that grants regenerate. His Steam Tank angles to hit my wolf riders with his shot.

His Knights charge my troll but prove to be in his front arc. I am not worried; my Regenerate should keep me alive long enough to attack back. I just want to Troll Vomit him, then flee and get the charge with my boars. Insert evil cackle here.

He rolls a whopping 3 for the Winds. I plan to stop Wyssans and play it by ear on anything else; I do have a Dispel Scroll.

Instead he gets Irresistible Force and the Knights have Wyssans. The Calamitous Detonation should hurt though; his Wizard and Battle priest fail their Look Out rolls; but the wiz is not wounded anyway. In fact, of the 12 potential S10 wounds...5 fail. 5. Still, he did 7 wounds to himself...so that was good.

Meanwhile, his wall of fire takes down 3 more of my Garrison. I was lucky there;
See, his well-positioned Steam Tank rolled perfect, hitting a full rank of 5 Wolf Riders and the building. But he rolled 2 ones to wound, so only 3 wolf riders died (thanks to the River spell, they auto-passed their LD test) and he rolled a "1" for how many guys in the building were hit.

But then his Handgunners, needing 7s to hit, manage to hit with a third of their shots and wound two more; I get some justice when I ward save one of them.

His scouts kill 2 of my Spider rides.

Meanwhile, Leitdorf wounds my troll 3 times. I regenerate one which means his knights get to fight; 4 wounds, none regenerated. Oops.

His overrun proves my plan worked, though; he hits the mangler Squigs; 9 of the 10 ensuing hits wound; he gets some luck as the bog's regenerate keeps 3 of them alive. Still, he cannot stand the heat and flees.

I have a long history of models I want to try out stinking up the joint like a frat boy at a bean-eating picnic. Not so for the mangler; did massive damage, changed the momentum, he was AWESOME sauce with a side dish of super cool.
Orc Turn 2
This is the turn a failed animosity test will not matter but failed stupidity will hurt. Evey unit passes, though.

The Troll charges the fleeing knights who of course must flee causing him some anxious moments when it flees through the center of his battle line. The Troll re-directs onto his Greatswords with the Arachnarok following suit.

Meanwhile, the Wolf Riders charge the organ Gun and the Spider Riders charge his scouts.

 Every charge hits home. I am excited; the Arachnarok made it in unscathed. I have high hopes for it. they are little lessened when both his detachments counter charge. I knew that was coming.I plan to have the troll vomit on a character, counting on his regeneration to keep him alive.


I consider declaring the Waaagh. This turn could be key; making his Greatswords flee would be devastating. I need to ensure seeing off that deadly Organ Gun. Ultimately, though, the key turn will include a battle for the Wachtower itself. I decide to keep the Waaagh in my pocket.

I put my Lucky Shrunken Head Savage Orc Shaman in the Watchtower and also one of my Night Goblin Shamans.

I roll double 3s for the winds. He then channels 3 and I channel none. He has as many Dispel as I have magic.Grr. The Vortex stays in place (rolled a hit on the scatter dice) but fails to damage him; it does, however, kill 2 or 3 of my Wolf Riders. I have now done more damage to me than him with it.

I throw Gaze of Mork at the tank thinking I get more than a plus one. In retrospect...I got no bonus at all as no ORC units were in combat. even with my unintentional cheating I fail to wound the Steam Tank.

I then cast Gork'll Fix it at his Greatswords. It goes off irresistibly but I die to the result.I am not happy with that trade.

The Doom Diver hits the Steam tank, gets a 6, and manages to get tough 2 wounds. Sweet. Then my Night Goblin archers use the Volley Fire to get off an impressive 60 shots. Let us not forget they are Night Goblin archers, though...22 hits, 3 wounds, he saves just one. I just put 4 wounds on the Steam Tank in one turn, crippling it.

I consider my order of combats and ultimately decide to work left to right since there are no combats that will see the result of another one affect theirs. I am wrong, but more on that in a bit.

The Spiders kill 2. His character has 3 attacks...and cannot roll higher than a 2. He does kill one, I get another of his with my goblins, he flees, I run him down.

I then discover not only how bad Wolf Riders are (and I knew they sucked) but especially how bad they are against war machines. Only 2 cavalry models get to fght! You choose 6, but each cavalry counts as THREE models, not two. I went in planning 8 goblin and 5 spider attacks and got 3 and 2...with luck I still kill the machine off but am down to 4 wolf riders.

By the way, these will be the next to last points I score in the entire game...

His Master Engineer panics and flees, I over-run to get out of the line of fire of his handgunners. This is another mistake; I want to divert his fire from the tower, I could not care less about these guys. This is residue from playing armies where every casualty hurts badly.


Time for the big gun.

The Arachnarok goes first as his I5 guy had a great weapon. I must choose one attack to be Venomous Surge so I pick on his BSB. And promptly roll a 6 for tat, then a 2...one dead BSB. That was pure luck and pure awesome.

I then get a further 4 wounds from his regular attacks; Gork'll fix it turns three saves into fails on re-roll. I am impressed.

Then his Halberds attack the Troll. 5 hit, 4 wound, and...not one regenerate. Not one.O11 possible Regeneration opportunities, exactly one was successful. Oh, and the 5+ regular save and magic resistance I paid extra for? Neither ever came into play. Trolls are just as awesome as I have always found them to be...

His Halberds on the other side fail to wound the Arachnarok. The Goblins attack them back and do two wounds.

His Greatswords do 3 wounds. Uh-oh...I am actually losing combat by one when standards, ranks, charges are taken into account...but I roll a 3 for Thunderstomp, kill 2 and win the combat. Barely. I determine to seldom if ever again charge the Arachnarok in without some actual support...

Empire turn 3
Leitdorf passes. He calls 2 for Steam Tank points. There is a 5 in 6 chance he will get hurt this turn...but rolls a 2, the only result he could get that did not hurt him.

The Demigryph Knights charge Gorbad's unit.

I use my Dispel Scroll to stop his Wyssans. Everything else my Level 4 v. his level 1 means I can block with dice.

He just gets the Steam Tank into range to use the Steam on the Watchtower. I save one of the 2 wounds thanks to the enhanced Ward from the Lucky Shrunken Head. I save all three wounds his first handgnner unit does, 2 because of the Shrunken Head. Wow. The difference between a 5+ and a 6+ sure FEELS like a lot more than 18%...he does wound another with his other handgunner unit.

Meanwhile, when he charged with his Demigryph Knights, 2 of the 3 failed their dangerous terrain tests and were wounded. Gorbad's always strikes first no armor save attacks do 4 more wounds, so he is down 2 knights. He wounds my rank & file 3 times, 1 Warpaint save, so two down. I wound his last knight twice, he flees, I overrun but lose one of my own Savage Orcs to the dangerous terrain.These will be the last points I score...

Meanwhile, the Arachnarok is less impressive this time; he hits just twice, though that means two casualties. We get to my goblins without him doing any wounds; I put 4 attacks apiece on his battle priest and wizard; 1 wound to each. remember the calamitous detonation? That means the priest dies. Huzzah!

The Greatswords put a further 3 wounds on the Arachnarok; have maybe one turn left before he dies. He has just 2 wounds left...well, Thunderstomp is an unimpressive 2, only one wounds...which means it is a draw...which means his musician is the difference. I pass my break test.

Orc Turn 3
Every unit passes animosity. Well, that is...every unit except Gorbads, which decides to sit on top of the bog staring aimlessly at the edge of the battlefield.

This will mean a wasted turn getting into position.

My big block of savage orcs moves forward to support the Arachnarock. One or two more turns an I will join the combat.

The Spider Riders enter the river, take the shooting spell, 9 hits wipe them out, the Night goblins panic and flee...no wiping out the Steam Tank this turn.

I get Ere We Go off, then Gaze of Mork fails to wound the tank. The Doom Diver misses.

Arachnarok misses on 5 of his attacks...but Ere We Go turns every one of them to a hit. 8 for 8. The Venomous Surge had been directed at the wizard; no surge, but still kills him. he saves just one of the other 7 hits so 6 die.

His Halberds whiff.

The goblins use Ere We go to get all 8 hits successfully, wounding 3, and 2 of those die. when his Greatswords whiff, he passes his tests, but we take stock;

He has plans, nothing to get into the Watchtower, has just a few knights, couple units of handgunners, 2 detachments of Halberds left. Gorbad is around, the big Savage Orc unit and Night Goblin archers (if they come back) are untouched...he cannot take the tower, and if he does cannot hold it. The Arachnarok...or, as Space Monkey dubbed it, Deathnarok should finish off the Greatswords next turn and the Halberds are not getting the job done...we call it.

Conclusion
OVERALL he rolled really well. However, at the key moments he rolled poorly. Also, his army setup which at first scared me might not have been able to take the tower under any circumstances.

As soon as I tied up his Greatswords, there was nothing but shooting left to attack the tower; and with the hard cover granted by buildings, he simply could not generate enough firepower to take them out quick enough.

Even had he finished them off with shooting, I would get my 30 man block in there and be untouchable. Or if he assaulted with a handgunner unit and won, I had plenty of force to evict him.

Second, magic was game-changing. When I hexed his unit in one turn, it cost him about 10 wounds and saves as he had to re-roll numerous successful saves which became fails, hits which became misses and wounds which became whiffs. Deathnarok probably would have died in turn two on his turn and definitely in turn 3 without Gork'll Fix it, and 'Ere We Go was worth a whopping 10 extra wounds in the defining round of combat.

The funny thing about it is I was and am underwhelmed by the overall power of the Big and Little Waaaghs. There was one turn early where he had used all his Dispel Dice, I had three dice left and nothing I particularly wanted to cast...nor did either lore attribute ever come into play.

I still think I would rather have a combat oriented character than another wizard.

Still, there were 4 models that determined this game. Deathnarok, Gorbad, Night Goblin Shaman and Mangler Squig.

The Mangler changed a strong advantage for him into a massive advantage for me. If he hits Gorbad's unit on the charge, all those S6 attacks are going to hurt me badly. Instead they fled and were never a factor again.

Gorbad turned a failed animosity test into a good thing. Ironically, the thing I paid the extra points for...his ability to make any number of Orc Units Big Unz...never mattered as the only unit that saw combat would be the one that is Big Un anyway...

But being the BSB and General, the expanded 18" bubble...those were huge.

And Deathnarok single-handedly reduced the Greatswords and three characters from dangerous battle force to no characters and I think 4 or 5 models...nothing I was scared of even with Night Goblins...

Looking back I see several errors I made. Each was minor and did not affect the outcome...but are things to work on. Target selection is the biggest.

Early on I was sure I was going to lose. His shooting was taking out my garrison at a frightening place, his Steam Tank alone was dominating my left flank and my cramped position was taking me too long to get my Sage orcs and Boar Boyz into action. then he took 3 wounds off my Deathnarok in one go...

Slowly the game turned, though. The Mangler Squig was the key point. It let me get into his Greatswords. I do not know they would have gone after the tower if he had been able to tie up Gorbad and the Savage Orc Big Unz and have the Demigryphs to deal with my 30-strong Savage orcs...but I know that being able to tie them up with the Deathnarok due to his fleeing knights removed that option from him.



Ultimately, this was a very entertaining game and I hope to play many more like it.

Oh, and the irony here? At the moment we called the game, I suspect he was ahead on points; He scored over three hundred, I doubt I had that many...

3500 Warriors of Chaos versus 3500 Lizardmen, Watchtower Scenario

After the experiment with the wizard on the dragon, I wanted to try an actually Chaos fighter lord on dragon. With the Ogre Blade, mark of tzeentch, Enchanted Shield and Talisman of Preservation he ends up having a 1+ armor save, 3+ ward, 7 S5 attacks, 6 strength 6 attacks, dragon breath and thunderstomp. He should do a number on infantry blocks and is quite capable of going after war machines, tough monsters, etc.

I actually like this build so much I am going to name him. Mithridates will make a come-back, and the dragon will be called Phangoria. Look it up. It is funny.

So when we decided to play an all-night game prior to me flying out to Nebraska, I was hoping it would be big enough to try him out.

We ended up rolling for size and 3500 came up. Score! Of course, fitting him him meant I would be susceptible to strong magic. I would have at best a level 2 wizard....

With over 700 points tied up in one character, I put in my normal BSB, a couple of level 2s marked with tzeentch, one with dispel scroll and the other with infernal puppet.

After fiddling around with points I ended up with a block of 20 chaos warriors with shield and tzeentch, a 14 warrior with khorne and great weapons and 2 marauder horsemen with throwing axes. I also had an h-cannon, warshrine, dragon ogre shaggoth, and 5 man and 10 man knight units. Whoops...due to points I had to drop the  10 man down to 5.

I like this build. If it is a straight up fight I just need to push forward and get into the right combats...hold them up with my 3+ save, 5+ ward Warrior block and blast the flanks with my hard hitting units while the Shaggoth and Dragon go after hard targets.

If blood and glory I have 4 units with banners, the BSB and my general. And if the Watchtower, if I get to set up in it, 20 Chaos Warriors with 3+/5+ re-rolling on an 8 are going to be hard to shift. I can use my other units to keep them from getting attacked.

Time to set up the field.

The field ended up being a bit...well, I thought at the time we had kind of blown the set-up. The center of the table was kind of crowded but there was little or nothing affecting the deployment zones. Too much of the terrain was next to each other. After the scenario, though, I think it was quite well set up. Had a nice impact on mobility.

They were taking a dual slann list. One had Life (?), the other metal. They had I think 3 other 10 man saurus blocks, a bik skink/kroxigor block and a couple units of skinks. Also the Engine and another stegadon.

As is typical for me when I see such a list, I immediately start thinking of its strengths. This army is quite well set up to crush my Warriors. I despise the lore of metal. It essentially removes my army wide strength of armor. Wish I had some lore that did not allow enemy armies their specialty....that removed ASF for high elfs, hatred for dark elves, cold blooded for lizardmen, etc. Saving grace is they have to be cast successfully. Downside is...with +2 to cast and the Slann abilities to add a die to every spell...I could be in a world of hurt.

Add to that the Engine allowing no armor saves and they have the potential to do a large amount of unstoppable damage that I can do nothing about. I just have to hope I can minimize that.

It used to be the Saurus would not bother me. I used to argue that they would sub-par and over-cost, that they did not do enough damage against weaker troops (say...empire state troops) and were as weak as state troops against stronger troop choices like Ogres. If there is one thing the Warriors are strong on, it is high quality troops.

Ironically, it was my brothers who convinced me the Saurus are better than I believed and a threat even to the warriors. So I am concerned. The skinks will cause me lots of saves which I tend to fail in large quantities, the Saurus outnumber me and their temple guard seem to be a valid threat to even my Warriors, they will dominate the magic phase and I could be in trouble.

I roll a 5 to snag the tower. I am happy. I already have my plan formed. I am going to throw my tough block into the tower, then tie up his other units and hope the game ends on turn 4 with me having 1 or 2 Warriors left in the tower.

I know that is all that matters. I can lose every guy I have except one. As long as I have one guy left but he is in the tower I will win. So that is the plan.

Then they spoil my plan by rolling a 6. "Fortunately" the only unit they have to put in there is a 10 Saurus block. I figure to be able to kill them...but will I be able to then occupy the tower?

I throw the 2 Marauder Horsemen units on the right as a feint. Everything else I plant right around the tower. My bog block of 20 is directly opposite the tower. The 14 khorne great weapons are to their left, the 5 man knights to their right in front with the 10 behind, the Shaggoth right of that and the cannon out to the side to get a line of sight. I plan to drop it on the Metal Tempe Guard/Slann unit hoping to get lucky.

I get to go first.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 1
I want to soften up the tower and do not want to use my Warriors to do it. I want to keep them protected as long as possible. I think it will take 2 turns to wipe out the Saurus in the tower. I also forget the rules....I start moving other units to block him off from entering the tower after I clear it out. If I can tie up his infantry units in combat then I will have time to occupy it on my turn. Otherwise, I figure I will kill his garrison off on my turn, then he will occupy it with a temple guard unit on his turn and that will be game.

The Knights make it into the tower, the big warrior block moves close hoping to be able to occupy it on turn 3, the khorne warriors move up on the building's left and the dragon flies in that direction.

I roll a whopping 11 dice for magic. I throw 6 at Infernal Gateway at his Metal slann. I want irresistible force. I will take my chances with the mis-cast. That is the most dangerous thing he has on the table to me. I am going to concentrate on it.

I roll a total of about 21, he rolls all his Dispel dice and stuffs it. I have 5 dice left and nothing to do.

Shooting; I center the template on the Metal Slann. It scatters off a couple inches. I then roll a "1" for the guy under the template and a 2 to wound the slann. Even though he loses 5 or 6 Saurus...I am disappointed. So far this turn has not gone well. Both units of Horsemen combine to get zero hits on their respective targets (I had moved them to throw shots at his terradons and a small Saurus block).

The tower battle goes very well, however. My 5 frenzied knights do what 5 frenzied knights do and wipe out all 10 saurus before they even get to attack.

The good news is...the tower is now empty. The bad news is...my knights are in the way of my warrior block getting into the tower.

Lizardman Turn 1


His terradons and saurus charge my marauder horsemen. I flee the terradons...and he overruns them. My other unit stands and shoots at his Saurus, do no damage and die in close combat.

The Metal Slann Temple Guard marches but outside the parameters of the building. The Engine moves up close to the building. The other Slann unit advances on what I call the left side of the building. Unbeknownst to them, they are playing right into the battle plan I formulated.

The old saw is "battle plans never survive contact with the enemy". They had no way of knowing this...but they were actually doing exactly what I would have begged them to do. By those moves they gave me the chance...albeit a slim one...of getting off suicide charges on both units. Clever movement of my BSB would mean I could tie them up with hard to kill, stubborn units.

They then rolled I think a 3 or 4 for the winds of magic. I breath a huge sigh of relief. They first attempt throne of vines. I do not even hesitate, I let it go. I know it protects them from miscast but it does not hurt me. I am saving all my dice to stop anything that lowers my armor save permanently or is damaging with no save.

My plan works as I have enough dispel dice to stop their casting.

Their stegadon bow misses. The skinks they put into the tower next to the watchtower then shoot at my dragon, one poison hit which I duly fail. After all, I only had a 3+...I am bound to fail one of 3 of those, might as well get it out of the way early.

So overall, the first turn was excellent for me. I already think the game comes down to one die roll which I will attempt post haste.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 2
The door is open. If I can get my Knights out of the way I will shove my Warriors block into the tower and then thrown everything I have at keeping him from assaulting it. I will save all my dice to protect the tower in the magic phase.

I declare the key charges. My knights with the zteentch mark and banner of rage charge the temple guard. This will come as a surprise to just about everyone...but I actually would not have done this in any other scenario.

As awesome as my knights are, I think they will severely reduce the Temple Guard unit but will eventually die. I want to combo-charge this unit. However, in the Watchtower scenario, the only thing that matters is occupying the tower. If I fail my swift reform roll, I need to keep him out of the tower.

Meanwhile, Shaggoth charges the terradons who also choose to flee. They go a long, long way.

On the left I advance my khorne warriors toward his other temple guard block.

It is now time for THE most important roll in the game. If I can swift reform the Knights, I will move them out of the way and shove my warrior block in the tower.

The charges succeeds, the swift reform...passes. I get my 3+, 5+ save, 20 man block into the tower. I now have a strong advantage.

Meanwhile, their positioning means I cannot get the dragon out of range of the skinks, but I fly him behind their lines anyway, aiming to charge the Engine next turn. I need to kill that thing off at all costs, because they have it perfectly positioned to kill off a few Warriors every turn.

I roll a 5 or 6 on the winds. After a brief debate,  I dispel Throne with all my dice. Probably should have tried Infernal on his engine.

The h-cannon scatters away, doing no harm.

My knights on the right do a few casualties and lose one of their own.

This next turn will be key. He will charge with his Temple Guard, do a few casualties, I will do a few. I actually figure I am about 85% likely to win the combat, I just need to withstand the attrition because that is what this has become; a war of attrition. I think they will work to wear down my block with repeated suicide charges and the Engine. Will I be able to hold out?


Lizardmen Turn 2
I get a huge shock. They do NOT charge the Temple Guard into the tower. Instead they move up between the tower and the Bane Tower or whatever it is. They move the razordon to block my Dragon charge on the engine and a jungle swarm hoping to also block.  The skink/kroxigor block swings around the tower.

They roll another low number on the Winds. He then fluffs Throne and I dispel his Metal spell. The Burning Alignment rolls a low number, does in one of the knights fighting his temple guard.

In combat I kill his champion again (came back to Throne prior turn I think?) and he kills another knight. I do almost no other casualties as they make every save.


Warriors of Chaos Turn 3
On the left I charge my khorne warriors into his Temple Guard. I believed they had made a mistake by not charging the tower last turn. (We had quite a debate about this post game. They had a different strategy than I would employ that they believed...and still believe in...which has some merit. If I knew then what I know now, I might not have charged...but I doubt it.)

This actually contradicts one of Napoleons dictates; "Never interrupt the enemy in the course of making a mistake." However, it also comes into whether they were making a mistake. And it completely comes down to point of view.

For the strategy they had adopted it was not a mistake. It was only a mistake if they had the same battle plan I would adopt in their place...which they would not. So while for me it would have been a mistake to not charge the tower, for them it was the correct play. Confused? Check out my post-battle meanderings for a more thorough discussion.

Behind his lines I charge Mithridates and Phangoria into his razordon. The stand and shoot is appalling as he rolls 2 hits and a misfire, eating a skink. He does no damage.
On the right Shaggoth charges his terradon who flee. A long way.

On the left he does in a couple of warriors and I then do in 14 of his temple Guard. Wow. that was..unexpected. It is also more what I used to think of Saurus.

He was striking first with I think 13 S5 attacks plus whatever the Slann does (read "nothing"). His S5 reduces my save to a 6+.   The damage done was quite modest. The khorne warriors, however, were devastating. Over 20 attacks needing 3s to hit, 2s to wound with a -3 are going to put a hurt on anyone. Him saving I think zero of them did not hurt.

On the right I do in a couple of his temple guard. I think he did not do any back, but he might have.

Mithridates and Phangoria do their thing, killing the razordon and over-running into the engine.

So this was a stupendous turn for me. I am in position to get some help to my Knight block on the right which is whittling down his temple guard, I am going to kill his life Slann in oneish more turns, I am a turn or two from ending the Engine's burning alignment, and the Shaggoth will stall his 10 Saurus block on the right. Even if he hammers Shaggy, 10 Saurus are not going to win this game for them.

Oh, think this was the turn I gave him a 3+ save with the Warshrine. So he is going to be pretty tough.

Lizardmen Turn 3
He moves some skinks up behind the Saurus on my right. His Terradons fail their rally test and fly off the field.

He again rolls abominably on the Winds...maybe a 3? 4? Their plan to regrow the Temple Guard on my left flies out the window. They do not have enough to Throne AND a metal spell. They cast a metal spell. I would need double 6s to stop it (might have been Dwellers Below, come to think of it...it was either that or Final Transmutation. Either way, all 20 of my Chaos Warriors take a test and die on a 5 or 6. That should drop them to about 12...I had lost a couple to Burning Alignment already).

I burn my Dispel Scroll. Burning does a wound to the dragon, takes down another knight, wounds one of my wizards.

In the shooting phase he hits the shaggoth twice with poison. Needing 3s to save, I take both wounds. Ugh.

I kill his skink priest in a challenge, then put a couple wounds on the Stegadon who wounds the dragon back. I now have 3 wounds on him. Just now occurred to me I forgot to roll on the Eye chart. Irrelevant, but would have been fun.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 4
Shaggy charges his Saurus. The cannon and Shrine move forward. Magic is pointless. I have nothing to dispel, nothing to cast.

Close combat is my specialty of course. The ancient stegadon dies, his Life Slann/Temple Guard block dies, I do a couple wounds to his Saurus with Shaggy (and take one back). The game is really over at this point. He does not have enough juice left to dislodge my essentially untouched tower-holding warrior block and I am devastating him everywhere else.

He does finish off my Knights, though. They did their job, whittling him down to maybe 5 or 6 Temple Guard left. Maybe less.

Lizardmen Turn 4
A little movement, another failed magic turn. His Kroxigor block did get into combat with the tower. I killed his skink champ in a challenge, put 2 or 3 wounds on kroxigor but think he did not get anything through.

I think this is the turn he charged my BSB who was left in the open when my knights died. I had been using him to keep Shaggy and the Knights stubborn. His positioning left him open.

Warriors of Chaos Turn 5
The knights charge in with Shaggy, my cannon and shrine finish off his other Saurus, he kills my BSB on his way out the door. The game is really over at this point so we call it.


Wrapping up
First off, what went right?

I think I came up with a really solid battle plan. The only mistakes I felt like I made were irrelevant. My Marauder Horsemen are in the list to go after Repeater Bolt Throwers, Stone Throwers, Jezzail Teams, Cannons. He had none. I threw them away going after irrelevant targets. They were not speed bumping units.

But it was at worst a minor mistake. I am not sure I want them in front of his tempe guard anyway as they would occupy space I would rather have for other units.

I had superior fortune in killing off his Saurus in turn one and then being able to occupy it myself with the block I wanted in there. There was very little chance I would fail my swift reform. I was trying on a re-rollable 9 due to Mithridates and the BSB. Had he kept just one Saurus alive, the game might have gone much different. As it was, I accomplished my goal in turn two and was able to put my plan into effect.

From this point on, my battle plan worked to perfection. I was able to occupy every unit he had that could assault the building and whittle them down to where they would be no threat to my warriors. I threw everything I had into stopping anything that could really hurt me. I got rid of his Engine's burning alignment, seldom had to stop metal magic and had plenty of dice to do so.

In the last couple of turns I made up for early bad fortune. The first couple of turns I was failing every save, he was making a lot of saves, my attacks other than the first tower assault were poor. I think it was 4 times I hit with 5 attacks, needed 2s to wound and did 2 wounds.

But most important of all, they rolled abominably for the winds of magic every turn. I think 6 was the most dice they ever got. They had based their strategy around crushing me with metal magic and regrowing their units. They never got enough dice to do both and spent their dice on Throne, leaving no dice for Magic.

Late in the game my dice were much better. They more than made up for the earlier pathetic rolls.

What went wrong?
Well...these are nothing but nit-picking. My shooting was horrific. The cannon scattered every turn, it never hit the Slann that was its target and was again ineffectual....though it was pretty awesome in close combat.

I did not know the correct rules or might have played slightly different. For whatever reason I was thinking you could not occupy the tower if you killed everyone in it. Otherwise I might have assaulted the building with my Warriors early on.

As mentioned above, early in the game I was failing every save. The shaggoth failed the first 2 3+ saves, the dragon failed all 3 3+ saves he attempted, my 5+ ward never saved anyone from the Burning Alignment.

All in all, it was a highly entertaining game against my brothers.

Now, on to the big controversy. Strategy.

Let me preface this by saying this; one of the things that makes Warhammer go is that different people make different strategies work. My take on this is not "right" or "wrong", it is MINE. By the same toke, their strategy is not "right", it is not "wrong", it is THEIRS.

Their strategy would not work for me. My strategy would not work for them. Whatever else you take away from the following, THAT is the key principle.

In the Tower scenario, only one thing matters. Who has a model in the tower when the game ends. Nothing else matters. Who killed what? Does not matter. How many saves did I make? Irrelevant. Did I get off an epic charge? Who cares. Do I have a model in the tower and is the game over? Button made of win.

If the roles are reversed, I am going to throw everything I have at the tower. I know going in that if I have Skinks, Saurus Warriors, or even Temple Guard and am facing Chaos Warriors...with or without the 3+ armor save, 5+ ward save...that I am going to lose the vast majority of combats. I am going to lose many more models in EVERY combat.

Math-hammer time.
10 Temple Guard with Halberds v. 10 Chaos Warriors with hand weapon/shield and tzeentch.
Chaos attacks first; 21 attacks hitting on 3s, 14 hits. 7 wounds with a -1. He saves, I want to save base 3+ save, 4+ net, he takes 3.5 - 4 wounds per turn.

21 attacks back (assuming champions are alive). 10.5 hits. 3 - 4 wounds, I save 2 -3 with armor alone. So he may or may not do a wound in any given assault (by the way, after this game I am back to believing what I used to believe; Saurus cost too much for what they are).

So honestly, I am going to win over 90% of the times this combat takes place.

At the same time, take the Knights versus Temple Guard grind. I wore him down over the course of several turns and he wiped out my unit (with the assistance of the burning alignment).  There was one turn where I think I failed 3 saves (only to make my only ward save with that unit in the game).

THAT is the turn my strategy revolves around. I want the charge where I have the statistical outlier. 18 of my attacks hit, 12 of them wound, my opponent saves 2.

Is it likely to happen? No. But I think it is my BEST CHANCE. Burning alignment is still taking off one or 2 models a turn. Reinforcements are theoretically available to me. My opponent has to hope to hold on. I can do this with multiple units. My first one dies horribly after 2 or 3 assaults? I send in the next unit.

This strategy requires me to protect the units I plan to tag-team the tower. I sacrifice the Terradons, small Saurus blocks, and skink blocks to keep my Temple Guard units available to charge the building every turn until the game is over or my guys are all dead.

Conversely, if I take the strategy they adopted and plan to kill everything in the building with magic and the burning alignment, I am going to fire everything I have at it.

When they rolled low on magic, I thought they got distracted. Throne of Vines is nice...but it does nothing to whittle down the numbers in the tower. If I were trying their strategy, instead of casting throne I would have been max dice at Final Transmutation or Dwellers below every turn. (Or Comet of Cassandora if they had it). If I lose my Slann to a mis-cast it is bad...but not as bad as going a turn without attacking the unit in the building.

Every shot I can muster, no matter how unlikely, is going to be aimed at the building. The 10 skinks in the building next door are going to be pot-shotting the building, even knowing I need 7s or more and am unlikely to do a casualty. But every casualty I do is just one small nick of attrition that is irreplaceable.

As it was, from my standpoint they got distracted. Burning alignment was taking 1 or at most 2 warriors per turn. Since I had 20 of them, that meant they needed 10 - 18 turns to get the job done with burning alignment.

I never had a Metal spell affect that unit. Each turn they had other things they attempted. We disagreed after the game on whether that was the right move. They believe they made the correct move, I was far more worried about the metal spells that could quickly and seriously reduce the number of Warriors I had available to defend the tower.

So it felt like I I was not facing a concentrated assault against the building. To me things like the Throne, shooting at my Dragon/khorne warriors were distracting them from the most important point of contact.

The thing is...I am in complete agreement with them on one point. Regardless of whether you go the magic/burning alignment route or the assault/assault/assault route, once I got that block into the building they were very, very unlikely to ever move them out. I suspect I win that game 98% of the time.

The question before us is what is more likely to win those 2% of the games. So for your amusement, I present the two strategies we discussed and let you choose for yourself.

Their strategy was to do a couple wounds with burning alignment and try to get a few more each turn with either Final Transmutation or Dwellers Below.

This has the probability to do several wounds a turn. I think it has an excellent chance of being successful and, in my belief, is best supported by throwing as many shots as possible in support. The hope is to use Burning Alignment, shooting, and magic to do 4 - 5 wounds a turn, then assault with the Skink/Kroxigor unit when it has been whittled down to a handful of warriors.

Weaknesses are if you roll low for Burning Aligment, Winds of Magic, or cannot get a spell through or cannot get your shooting into position.

Conversely, the strategy I would probably adopt would be combining Burning Alignment with assaults. This would also rely on having a secondary target; killing the BSB.

The goal here is to win that one combat and have them fail the Leadership roll. It is unlikely to work. As we saw above, neither Saurus nor Temple Guard are going to do very many casualties in an average combat.

However, if you have played Warhammer for long, you have seen the untouchable unit of doom fluff their attacks and the sub-par unit roll unbelievably well. I have seen night goblins take out iron-breakers, for example.

I have also seen LD 9 Dwarves with a re-roll have 3 units run in one turn.

And that is what I am shooting for. I want to wear down the Chaos Warriors,  hoping that Burning Alignment and my Temple Guard will take down 2 to 3 Warriors per turn and, if I am lucky, win a combat and have them fluff the roll.

Once the Chaos Warriors get into the building, the game is going to be won by Chaos the vast majority of the time.

The question is what someone believes gives them the best chance to climb the mountain.

Both plans have merit. The magic approach will almost assuredly do more damage over the course of the game if allowed to happen. It then requires assaults that rely on finishing off a weakened unit or getting that failed Leadership test.

The assault plan wants to do more casualties in one turn and get more chances at failed Leadership tests. It requires getting lucky and winning assaults you are unlikely to win.

Again...neither is likely to happen. Both are long-shots. It just depends on the mind-set of the person playing it which works better for them.

Run the numbers and you will find what all three of us already know; no matter which way you go, once the Warriors take the building, it is all but game over. So the moral of the story is this; if you engage in the Tower scenario with the Warriors of Chaos, do everything you can to keep them from getting into the tower.

Send squads to stand between their units that can occupy it. You will die, but they will not be in the building. If they get in the building, throw absolutely everything you have at them every turn as soon as possible, as often as possible.

And if those things fail, distract them while you move the tower into your deployment zone and hope he does not notice....

Watchtower Battle, High Elf versus Lizardmen

As a general rule when playing wargames, I have gone with armies that fit my tactical acumen. Typically that means mobile, hard-hitting, rugged warriors.


Space marines in 40K. Bretonnians, Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer.



From time to time I branch out...in 40K I used to be developing an Eldar army. Man how I loved the Warp Spiders. Great fun to play with. I loved some of the stunts I could pull off with them.



In Warhammer, I have experimented with Wood Elf, Orc and Goblin, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, and Lizardmen armies, but pretty much always come back to the WoC. Except for their lack of shooting, they are the perfect army for me. My preferred tactics work well with them.



Too well. I end up becoming rather predictable. By the time the second or third unit for each side has been set up, I more or less know when and where combat will be joined. I know what I want to happen and am able to get the guys I want to the place I want.

It does not ALWAYS work...but the percentages are with me.

So I wanted a more flexible army that fought in a different style.



So not too long ago I painted up most of a High Elf army and a month or so ago my brother and I started a 1k game between my High Elf and his Lizardman army.



When we first started playing warhammer Fullur was struggling. Tactics eluded him a bit, he struggled with force composition...but he kept using the same race and has progressively gotten better and better to where now he is likely to win any game he starts to play. His recent record has been among the top records in our group. This is something I am ecstatic about...



Anyhow, we rolled up the Watchtower scenario and I won the right to place a unit in there. Unfortunately, poor army building meant the unit I WANTED to put in there...my Lothern Sea Guard...was too large. So I put nothing in instead.



I deployed to get as much shooting at him as possible while he deployed to get his Skink block at the tower quickly with the Saurus coming up behind.



We played the first few turns a couple months ago, so memory might be hazy, but what I recall is



He killed 3 of my Dragon Princes with his Razordon. I tried to bring them back with regrowth, not realizing I only got 1 per 2 wounds...so when I rolled a 3, I only brought back one. They were slain by the kroxigor the next turn.

Meanwhile, his skinks got into the tower. But the next turn my Swordmasters charged in. This just in; elite High Elf Always Strike First with superior weapon skill, re-rolls to hit and needing 2s to kill versus...well...skinks...just might be a mis-match.

It was one of those epic charges I love so much about fantasy battle. Fortunately for me, I was on the right side of it. I do not think his skinks even got to swing back before they were mowed down and I took the tower.

This allowed my Wizard Lord to hurl Purple Sun at his Saurus block, killing just 5 or 6, but enough to force a break test...which, amazingly he failed, but only ran 4". Next turn he somehow failed to rally...and again fled just 4".

Meanwhile, his Carnosaur riding Scar-vet charged into my big block of seaguard. I challenged with my champ, he killed him with a few points of overkill, my ranks & banner won the combat.

Over the next few turns this combat would get more and more involved as my Eagle charged the back of his Carnosaur, his Terradons charged the rear of my eagle, his Kroxigor unit tried to reach the combat. Failed its charge, my Repeater Bolt Thrower

Each turn he would kill my champ, on my turn I would get my champ back with a successful Life casting..it was a real meatgrinder.

Back at the watchtower his salamander ate its handlers and got the result where it just shoots at the nearest enemy every turn...my Swordmasters in the building.

All game I had avoided shooting at his Engine because I did not want to remind him it could use Burning Alignment. Instead I shot his kroxigor unit, whittling them down to 1 krox. He was wheeling another skink unit through the forest to get at my Repeater bolt thrower.

Finally his krox made it into the combat. I actually did a wound with my spearmen, my eagle killed his last terradon, he whiffed his attacks. Then he remembered his stomp...it killed a Sea guard...and by that thin a margin, his Carnosaur stayed in the fight. Without that one extra wound he would have broken.

His Krox did break. By now, however, the Skinks were into my Bolt thrower and now he started using burning alignment.

Then came the fateful moment.

He cast Chain Lightning at my Swordmasters. He was using a level 2 and rolled poorly. I used my Level 4 and the same number of dice...and failed to block it.


It did several casualties.I then rolled under his total, so he got harmonic convergence off on his carnosaur.

Then Burning alignment hit hard. Then the Salamander ripped mighty gashes through others. I was left with just 2 Swordmasters and my level 4...having started the turn with 9 or 10 Swordmasters and the level 4.

He killed my champ with his carnosaur.

My turn; I tried regrowth with most of my power dice...and rolled poorly. He dispelled it. I used the last of my dice trying the transformation of kadon...and he dispelled it.

For all intents and purposes, it now came down to me hoping to roll a 5+ at the end of the turn to end the game.

In close combat his skinks finished off my warmachine crew. Harmonic convergence was cast with irresistible. He took a s10 hit...and rolled a 1. Ha ha ha ha nice! But then he failed the roll to keep his wizard around and died anyway.

We were not sure if Harmonic stayed in play after caster died, so we ruled it did. (It was a typical Starving Crazed Weasels rules discussion; he argued it did not since that would favor me and I ruled it did since it would favor him. Since I am bigger, older, and my flatulence reaks worse...I won the debate.)

It then made it so all his carnosaur/veteran attacks hit...and meant any that failed to wound would get a reroll. He tore a mighty hole through my Sea guard. Still, I was steadfast...oops. Broke. Got run down.

I was now down to 3 Sowrdmasters and a Wizard against a Kroxogor, a Scar-vet on Carnosaur, 15ish Saurus, 10 or so skinks, a salamander...

Yeah, so...I rolled a 2 and the game continued.

He charged in with his Saurus, killed me, and for the first time I can remember I got tabled.

I have come close twice against the dark elves, but each time had a couple irrelevant models left. This...this was devastation.


The thing is, the game completely turned on turn 4 when all his magic went off and mine all got stuffed...but I lost the game earlier than that.

Plain and simple, I got out-played.

I know WHY I put the Swordmasters in the tower...their S5 could hurt the Saurus I expected him to attack with. The S3 Sea Guard? Not so much.

BUT I needed to stick my largest, most resilient unit in the tower. that would be the Sea Guard. Instead I tied them down in a pointless battle they had little chance in. Basically they needed to get the Carnosaur to fail a LD8 check on 3 dice...a highly unlikely occurrence. Sure, I won combat after combat...but I was using my resources improperly.

Meanwhile, he concentrated more than sufficient force at the only place it mattered...the building. Even if I got lucky against his Scar vet...it distracted me from defending the tower.

His use of magic was outstanding. Mine? Not so much. I should have done regrowth a turn earlier, concentrated on buffs instead of Purple Sun...or even gone the Transformation route to kill his Carnosaur/Scar vet thus allowing my Sea Guard to help out around the tower.

I got outmaneuvered, out-strategized, and just generally outplayed.

That meant when just a couple small things did not go perfectly for me, I had no chance to recover. He, meanwhile, when things went wrong (Saurus breaking twice without seeing combat, his handlers getting eaten, his Kroxigor failing a charge and then breaking) had the right troops in the right location so those failures did not matter.

Well done, Fullur. I look forward to our next game!

Watchtower Scenario, 1500 High Elf v. Lizardman