Thursday, July 23, 2009

Further thoughts on the last post

The more I think about the list(s) I made yesterday, the more I love the concept. It might even be almost perfect for our gaming group.

It is a small, tight list with plenty of holes to be exploited. With no Magic defense and no way to deal with monsters or mobile, shooty armies, it should auto-lose to no more than 3 armies and auto-win against only 1. Against everyone else, it should about hold its own and chance will play a huge part.

It pretty much auto-loses to every Elf army we have. Of course, Space Monkey is still a ways away from deploying the High Elf army and Chad seldom shows up with the Wood Elf army, so that means basically only the Dark Elf army is an auto loss. I have yet to see (and do not want to see) a Dark Elf army that isn't mobile or with powerful magic or with deadly monsters or some combination thereof. I expect the same with the High Elf army. Elf mobility, shooting prowess and magic prowess (except the Wood Elf is pedestrian) make them a really bad match-up for me and I am fine with that.

Meanwhile, the Goblins are an auto win for me. Well, okay, they are an auto win for EVERYBODY so they do not count.

Games against the Skink shooting army or Slann magic army will mostly come down to terrain and a couple of die rolls, so I should win some and lose some. Perfect. If he shows up with a magic-heavy list, I can have Wulfrik go Wizard hunting. If they are a mobile shooting army, I can use my 2 units of Knights to try and pin down a unit at a time, though if the terrain favors him, it could take too long and I could get shot into a loss, though it is likely to be a minor one. Should be some fun games in the meantime.

Games against the Dwarf army will also be fun: I will get softened up by his War machines and gun line, but Wulfrik can help with the war machines with a little fortuitous rolling to show up and a softened Chaos battle line against the rugged Dwarf army could be a lot of fun with lots of games coming down to the last turn. They have such marginal mobility that I know I will be able to force some close combats which is all I really want out of this army. Some wins and losses there.

Battles with Brettonia will continue to be epic and will probably come down to whether I can get the charge on his Grail Knights or if he charges my Knights. The Chargers probably win most of those. Again, both of us rely on getting into close combat, so I know I will have some. Our last game of Maneuver was fun but an anomaly.  So should have some wins, some losses.

And the long as I don't take Nurgle, should be some epic confrontations there, too. These might be the most fun games of all as both armies rely heavily on close combat. His Lead Belchers can shoot maybe 2 times at best before combat is joined and his Gnoblars are within charge range when they are in range to throw Sharp Stuff. Plus, their limited offensive magic means that hole is covered. 

The reason I say no Nurgle makes sense to me, but I do not think as others do so I should clarify. The bulk of his troops will already only be hitting me 1 in 3 times. If I go with Nurgle, he would then only hit me 1 in 6 times. With only a 50% chance of wounding and that having probably 33% chance of being saved (or more for my Knights), he would have to make about 18 attacks to expect to wound as opposed to a non-nurgle set-up where he "only" needs about 9 at most, possibly less. So it makes for a better game that gives the Ogres a more fair chance.

Of course, this list is set-up specifically for the Ogres. If I were to make a "take on all comers" list based on this, I would not take the great Weapons but take shields instead, meaning I am less likely to wound him but more likely to save the hits he does get through. I think my win percentage would climb precipitously...though hopefully I am wrong.

Also, I actually started wasting my time...err, trying to assemble my Shaggoth tonight. In a shock to nobody, it is not going any better than my third attempt to pin the stupid minotaur. But if and when I get the stupid thing assembled, I will probably find a way to work his 265 points into most if not all the lists, though that could fundamentally change it.

The way it is set up now, it plans to have 2 blocks of infantry in the center with fast Knights on each wing to pin down the opponent and make sure I get into close combat. I should be able to get there by keeping my Battle Standard Bearer more or less centered. That way, between the Will of Chaos rule and units within 6" being Stubborn with a re-roll for BSB proximity, I should have an 89% chance of wading through any quantity of casualties to get into close combat. If I can do that, do a few casualties, then I don't really care if I win or lose.

My most recent game, it had one of those epic moments I love where my Knights charged in and did some massive amount of damage, something like 11 or 12 casualties. It was great fun (for me, probably not so much for my victim).  I would love to get in like 1 of those per game but still get a draw or minor loss. That would be awesome. It will be tough to do though since most armies that take a pounding like that cannot recover.

Some can. And that is what I hope to see. Of course, adding the Shaggoth would fundamentally change the structure as to save enough points to include him would probably require removing a block of Chaos Warriors in favor of Marauders. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing.

 Against Dwarf armies with no hill I can either use them with Wulfrik or as a screen. 
Against Skink armies, screen and help with frontage to pin down the squirmy little buggers.

Against Ogres, they can take out those pesky Gnoblars.

Against Dark Elfs...well, my entire army is casualties anyway :-)

Against the Brets, they can compete with Men at Arms or flank charge Grail Knights if my own Knights can survive for a couple turns to give them time to arrive. Or join Wulfrik to hit that pesky Trebuchet...

So it is not necessarily a bad thing to have more Marauders and less Warriors, simply means ALL my damage will have to come from Knights instead of just the bulk of it.

Any way you look at it, I love this army list and think it might be what I base my "all comers" list on. I have been fiddling around with a lot of lists, and this is the first one I have been excited to play, win or lose. 

I think the magic ones will pop up just often enough to make people defend against them, but I like the "Armor Plated Close Combat Army of Doom".

As an aside, it could then be modeled after the Spartans.

The Marauders could be the Hoplites and/or Massenians. The Warriors could be the Spartans themselves. And of course, my theme of naming my leaders after famous losers could start with Leonidas and work down the list...good times.

1 comment:

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