Thursday, June 11, 2009

Rules Comments

We often end games having had several rules questions come up, some resolved, some unresolved. I will post the ones that I remember to here, and people can catch up or comment, or post their own answers, thoughts, or questions so they can be researched and read up on. =D
Starting with:

We have had it come up several times as to whether the "Outnumber"-ing part of the Combat Result is calculated based on original unit strength, as the rank bonus, or on end of round unit strength. In the example they give on page 37 of the miniature Rulebook, it appears the numbers are actually compared based on remaining troops, not on beginning of round troops, as we had previously been playing. Whoops.... 0.O


kennyB said...

Here's a question:

Do wounds that are Regenerated count towards the Combat Result, as they must be actually suffered wounds to be Regenerated...? The Combat Result instructions on page 37 of the Rulebook say "Do NOT count the wounds that were saved by an armour save or a ward save (in other words, only count unsaved wounds).". It does not mention wounds that are Regenerated, and I would think a wound would have to be suffered (unsaved) to be Regenerated, as otherwise there is nothing to Regenerate....
However, on page 96 when describing the Regeneration rule, it says "This rule confers a special regeneration save to the model which works exactly like a 4+ ward save (see page 30), with the following exceptions:

*Wounds suffered from a flaming attack cannot be regenerated - no regeneration save is allowed against such attacks.

*Regeneration saves are not ward saves, and can therefore be taken after armour saves and ward saves have been failed!".

So any wound that is not saved by Armour or Ward Save counts towards Combat Result, right? OR does the Regen save make it a saved wound, and therefore unqualified to be an "unsaved wound"? But then, why wouldn't they specify the 3rd type of save, that we know they knew existed because it is further along in the same book? wwwaaaaaaggghh!

Darth Weasel said...

Short answer:they do not count. Only wounds that make it all the way through do.

Liam said...

Ive got a question about fleeing. When a unit gets charged, and their reaction is to flee, do you then match up the two units and then roll fleeing and pursuit dice? or does the charged unit roll flee dice where it is at and then the charging unit rolls pursuit dice from its orignal position, e.i. it had been like it had never charged and was reverting directly to pursuing. Couldn't find it in my rule book, was hoping somebody would know.

Darth Weasel said...

in my book, it is page 19.
Fleeing is done by first pivoting the units on the spot (around their centre) to face directly away from the charging enemy, and then moving them directly away from the charging enemy 2d6" if their movement characteristic is 6" or less, or by 3d6" if their Move is more than 6".

Hope that helps.

Liam said...

A bit. But what I am really looking for is this: Would the charged units wait for the charging units to move into base contact, THEN flee, or would they start running as soon as the chargers charge? If so, the chargers would either fail the charge, or rather than moving their charge allowance, act in a way that is like pursuing.

Heres an example of what I think happens; Bretonnian Knights charge a group of peasants. The peasants immediate action is to flee. The Knights haven't moved yet for there charge, and the peasants are already fleeing. The knights then roll dice for a pursuit. The peasants were 16 inches from the Knights, and rolled a 3 and a 4, furthering their distance another 7, making them 23 inches away. therefore, the Knights would have to roll 23 or more for their pursuit roll.

I basically think this because logic dictates that a unit would not wait for an enemy to reach them before running for their lives. Does this seem to make sense, and if so, can anyone prove that this is the actual rules?

kennyB said...

Okay, so I just completely re-read the FAQ's and found absolutely nothing about Regeneration, period. I did find this though, in the second general FAQ:

"Q. If the Wound caused by the Steal Soul spell is
saved (for example by a ward save or
regeneration), does the caster still get to gain a
Wound? Also, can Steal Soul be cast into close
A. Yes to both. The text is actually quite clear."

And here is Steal Soul from "The Lore of Death" on page 119 of the mini-Rulebook:
"...The enemy model loses 1 Wound. No armour save is allowed. In addition, the casting Wizard gains 1 Wound for the duration of the battle...."

So I guess it's not actually applicable, as you gain the Wound as a seperate part of the spell, but oh well. There is still naughta in the FAQ about Regen. lol

kennyB said...

To Liam:
On page 22 of the mini-Rulebook it specifies that you first move the fleeing unit the roled distance, then measure to see if the charging unit can successfully make the charge with their movement, it becomes a failed charge "and the chargers must move their normal Move rate exactly as any other failed charge".

To clarify a little more, you don't "pursue" unless your opponent fails a "Break Test". In your scenario, they are fleeing a charge, not breaking. There is a big difference in the rules for "Break Test's", which only occur as a result of Close Combat, and "all other reason's for running away", which are most often the results of Panics and Charges.

kennyB said...

I don't know if this site is more or less dependable than the one you linked to, but they indicate the opposite about regen, as when people combined the Pendant of Slaanash (gain an attack for the rest of the battle for each wound taken after armour saves) and the Crown of Everlasting Conquest (regen), they gained the attack even when saving with regen (Hordes of Chaos, 7th edition ruleset, 2006, as far as I can tell):

However, I can't get past where the rulebook says " exactly like a 4+ ward save...". It's funny because it then says "Wounds suffered...cannot be regenerated...". But how can it clause "a wound suffered from something" stops the save from regenerating that wound, if it's not a wound in the first place??? I get the ruling, but it is a really dumb term to use for a 3rd type of save, and then to avoid mentioning it in all cases that refer to saves is ridiculous. They should have called it "luck save" or "blessed save" or something other than a term that specifically indicates the healing of an injury (wound) suffered.... o.0

Did Baron write the rulebook? rofl

Darth Weasel said...

You are way over-thinking it. Wounds cannot be regenerated in future turns. However, Regeneration occurs PRIOR to Combat resolution. Also, the rule book says works like a ward save "with the following exceptions" which then clarify what those exceptions are. When it says works like a Ward Save, it refers to it not being modified by armor piercing, stuff that doesn't allow armor saves, etc.

By the strict wording, you are correct but the intent seems pretty clear...they are shooting for, "How much damage was psychologically inflicted" thus the Overkill and outnumbering stuff...seriously, if I charge in with super-hard armor, kill 4 guys, nobody attacks me back, am I really running from a group just because they have a battle standard and more people? I already should not fear them...grr.Anyway, tangent there. My first one ever.

kennyB said...

New Question:

The Lizardman have a Stegadon with a Giant Bow (Bolt Thrower) that has poison, if they roll a 6 to hit, does it auto-wound through all possible ranks, as you DID roll a 6 for hitting which activates the poisons effects? Or does it only auto-wound the first rank, and you have to roll for ranks after the first? I could definitely see it either way, but it has the potential to be super-awesome if it auto-wounds all ranks on a poisoned hit!